Thoughts on a CPC *possible* group buy (1 Viewer)

[tim722]

I have a whole bunch of inlay design ideas that have been stacking up in my head for awhile. I want to explore possibilities for a CPC group buy in the next 6-12 months. Among the possibilities are bringing back some old designs I did for ASM Vegas. Another idea is to do something with some of the closed casinos, like Club Cleopatra. There are quite a few I've been researching.

One of them is the Casino del Rio in Cuba. It never opened due to "La Revolucion." The chips are so incredibly mid-century, retro looking.

The group buy part is completely preliminary, and would be based on a ton of factors as yet undetermined. I thought I would get the ball rolling with a mockup. I chose an L1 spot and the Horsehead mold to keep things affordable, and because the original chips used that mold and spot pattern. Things are subject to change down the road. These are simply to spark some comments and feedback, and see where this might lead.

I have a whole bunch more designs in the pipeline that I'll be posting in the next week or two. Possibilities include Late Night Poker Tour, Club Cleopatra Tourney, Eldorado Club cash, River Queen, etc. The door is wide open at this point until an actual group buy gets going.

So, anyways.....here goes! In order are the $1, two $5 chips, $25, $100 and $1000. Still working on inlays, plus I don't want to reveal everything at once. These are the original spot patterns. Let me know what you think.

 

[manamongkids]

Should email David at CPC, discounts don't really exist until you hit 10k-20k chips and the discount iirc is minimal

 

[tim722]

I hear you. I've not spoken with them at all, so that may be a big show stopper. We'll see what the weather brings.

 

[BGinGA]

I want to explore possibilities for a CPC group buy in the next 6-12 months.
Let me know what you think.

There is basically no incentive for participating in a CPC group buy, unless you have a proprietary design that is in high demand (and is otherwise unavailable). Many more stumbling blocks than advantages.

 

[Quicksilver-75]

I would like to be a optimist here. A few things that will garner some interest is a mutually developed concept. L1 spots will still make a spot progression possible. But most importantly is getting David's blessing to help develop such a group buy. Keeping in mind that a balanced approach to cost/profit would be best. I'm sure David would prefer that this wasn't a bargain basement set.

 

[Payback]

I would like to be a optimist here. A few things that will garner some interest is a mutually developed concept. L1 spots will still make a spot progression possible. But most importantly is getting David's blessing to help develop such a group buy. Keeping in mind that a balanced approach to cost/profit would be best. I'm sure David would prefer that this wasn't a bargain basement set.

My understanding is that the lower the spot combination the more profit for CPC so my guess is they prefer lower level orders over.

As there is no benefit to large orders/group buys I'm not sure why anyone would ever order from one instead of developing their own unless they are planning on order less than 300 chips in which case what are they doing on PCF?

 

[manamongkids]

My understanding is that the lower the spot combination the more profit for CPC so my guess is they prefer lower level orders over.

As there is no benefit to large orders/group buys I'm not sure why anyone would ever order from one instead of developing their own unless they are planning on order less than 300 chips in which case what are they doing on PCF?

Or as Dave said, it's a highly coveted design where someone Owns the rights. Example: rounders

 

[Payback]

Or as Dave said, it's a highly coveted design where someone Owns the rights. Example: rounders

Yeah I shouldvd mentioned I think that would be the only exception to that rule.

 

[tommythecat]

I am not in the market at the moment, but what about a crowd sourced chip in the vein of the Sidepot chips. IIRC that was a crowd sourced project all the way from the ground up and ended up being some pretty high demand chips. Not necessarily talking a whole new mold design or anything that ambitious, but I could see this community coming up with a snazzy design that a good portion of people would be interested in. Definitely won't be easy and will take a long time I would think.

And though I am not in the market now I might be once it comes time to start collecting money. All of this of course hinges on David/CPC being up for the project as well.

 

[tim722]

I am not in the market at the moment, but what about a crowd sourced chip in the vein of the Sidepot chips. IIRC that was a crowd sourced project all the way from the ground up and ended up being some pretty high demand chips. Not necessarily talking a whole new mold design or anything that ambitious, but I could see this community coming up with a snazzy design that a good portion of people would be interested in. Definitely won't be easy and will take a long time I would think.

And though I am not in the market now I might be once it comes time to start collecting money. All of this of course hinges on David/CPC being up for the project as well.

This has definite possibilities. I will post more ideas in the next few days, and plan to start a conversation with David/CPC. There are several designs I worked on in the past that didn't see the light of day for various reasons. Some of them could be expanded upon to produce some very nice chip sets.

For example: (last one is for ceramics, but can be updated, modified for an inlay). There are others as well. Just food for thought.

 

[Poker Zombie]

You have good ideas, but as BGinGA mentioned, you need to have a "gotta have" set for a group buy, because you will never get the GB levels otherwise - not at CPC prices anyway. You'd be better off trying to do something similar to Dennis63's Key West project, where he sells the chips at cost (or for a loss), and then makes the rest up on the back-end with buttons, decks, roulette wheels, and everything else. And that's a hell of a lot of work for what I assume has been little to no profit.

If you really wanted to get a GB going, I would suggest contacting David first. Then discussing costs for the repair/replacement of the oversized A-Mold, the development of a totally new mold, or offer to spearhead the purchase to the rights of a existing, out of production mold (like the E&C - which is doubtful because of it's use in private clubs), or to design an all-new mold (which runs 5 digits).

But otherwise, welcome to the forum. Become a well known member here and perhaps offer to help out others with their designs. Talent here is already high (see any post featuring art by P5Woody or J5), but more is always welcome.

Just don't think you can get your own custom CPCs and hope others will do the same - unless you have caught an early glimpse of the Rounders 2 chips (due out this fall) because those are going to sell like hotcakes.

Spoiler: Rounders 2 clip - no chips visible

I did say there were no chips. What more did you want?

 

[tim722]

You have good ideas, but as BGinGA mentioned, you need to have a "gotta have" set for a group buy, because you will never get the GB levels otherwise - not at CPC prices anyway. You'd be better off trying to do something similar to Dennis63's Key West project, where he sells the chips at cost (or for a loss), and then makes the rest up on the back-end with buttons, decks, roulette wheels, and everything else. And that's a hell of a lot of work for what I assume has been little to no profit.

If you really wanted to get a GB going, I would suggest contacting David first. Then discussing costs for the repair/replacement of the oversized A-Mold, the development of a totally new mold, or offer to spearhead the purchase to the rights of a existing, out of production mold (like the E&C - which is doubtful because of it's use in private clubs), or to design an all-new mold (which runs 5 digits).

But otherwise, welcome to the forum. Become a well known member here and perhaps offer to help out others with their designs. Talent here is already high (see any post featuring art by P5Woody or J5), but more is always welcome.

Just don't think you can get your own custom CPCs and hope others will do the same - unless you have caught an early glimpse of the Rounders 2 chips (due out this fall) because those are going to sell like hotcakes.

I'm not really looking for custom chips myself. More trying to get a conversation started on how to make it possible for some others to get some semi custom or stock designs at an affordable price. I have all the custom chips I'll ever need and then some, as well as bunches of one of a kinds and collectibles.

The immediate thing on my list now is to talk to CPC and get things rolling. You have some good ideas, but I'm not in a position to front money for molds or mold repairs.

There are other possibilities to explore and I plan on doing that.

 

[johnnycnote]

You have good ideas, but as BGinGA mentioned, you need to have a "gotta have" set for a group buy, because you will never get the GB levels otherwise - not at CPC prices anyway. You'd be better off trying to do something similar to Dennis63's Key West project, where he sells the chips at cost (or for a loss), and then makes the rest up on the back-end with buttons, decks, roulette wheels, and everything else. And that's a hell of a lot of work for what I assume has been little to no profit.

If you really wanted to get a GB going, I would suggest contacting David first. Then discussing costs for the repair/replacement of the oversized A-Mold, the development of a totally new mold, or offer to spearhead the purchase to the rights of a existing, out of production mold (like the E&C - which is doubtful because of it's use in private clubs), or to design an all-new mold (which runs 5 digits).

But otherwise, welcome to the forum. Become a well known member here and perhaps offer to help out others with their designs. Talent here is already high (see any post featuring art by P5Woody or J5), but more is always welcome.

Just don't think you can get your own custom CPCs and hope others will do the same - unless you have caught an early glimpse of the Rounders 2 chips (due out this fall) because those are going to sell like hotcakes.

Spoiler: Rounders 2 clip - no chips visible

I did say there were no chips. What more did you want?

Nicely done sir. lol!

 

[hod]

There is basically no incentive for participating in a CPC group buy, unless you have a proprietary design that is in high demand (and is otherwise unavailable). Many more stumbling blocks than advantages.

This is the crux of it.

Nicely done sir. lol!

johnnycnote's avatar hot stamped chip would be a starter for ten!

I'm not really looking for custom chips myself. More trying to get a conversation started on how to make it possible for some others to get some semi custom or stock designs at an affordable price. I have all the custom chips I'll ever need and then some, as well as bunches of one of a kinds and collectibles.

The immediate thing on my list now is to talk to CPC and get things rolling. You have some good ideas, but I'm not in a position to front money for molds or mold repairs.

There are other possibilities to explore and I plan on doing that.

I'm interested in what the possibilities could be, I suspect that CPC won't really be in a position to offer any significant price break, and like suggested earlier, if so, it would likely be for solid or simple edgespot pattern chips. I'd happily be proved wrong mind you.

 

[MillyS]

unless you have caught an early glimpse of the Rounders 2 chips (due out this fall) because those are going to sell like hotcakes.

Rounders 2 really out this fall? Or you toying with my emotions lol.

 

[Poker Zombie]

Toying. It's been a project "in development" for years. Many would love to see it go through, but the X's and O's will probably never line up. Much like a CPC group buy to get true clay chips for a discount or the resurrection of the E&C mold, this thread just Rick Rolled all of us.

I just added the video.

 

[tim722]

Toying. It's been a project "in development" for years. Many would love to see it go through, but the X's and O's will probably never line up. Much like a CPC group buy to get true clay chips for a discount or the resurrection of the E&C mold, this thread just Rick Rolled all of us.

I just added the video.

In all seriousness... What would it take to get rounders 2 chips to become a reality ? Catch me up or point me to relevant info if possible.

 

[Mental Nomad]

My understanding is that the lower the spot combination the more profit for CPC so my guess is they prefer lower level orders

I don't know where you get that impression... from everything I've read, they price the different spot levels based on the actual cost of producing them. This is why the lower spot level cost less; they take less time and cause fewer rejects. The spot levels that take multiple careful passes, and which lead to high reject rates, have to cost more.

I think one area where a group buy may have some play might be:

- a group of people all want a set with many different chip denominations, but many of which are in small quantities
- this group of people all agree to the same molds, spot patterns, and colors
- this group of people want to use their own varying inlay art

This might make sense. Since all the sets are being made with the same colors, CPC can plan their clay composite blending in large batches. Since all the sets have the same spots, they can have a consistent production process. Layering different printed inlays for the final mold pressing is probably not that big a deal.

This would allow everyone to pool quantities so that every chip color turns out to be a reasonably large quantity; this makes sure to meet minimums and allows CPC to produce the odd-ball chips a little more efficiently.

The catches?

1. You'd have to get everyone in the group to agree to colors and spots. Good luck with that.
2. You still won't get much of a discount. You may not get any discount. There's just not much margin there.

 

[Forty4]

This thread has your best chance IMO http://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/hot-stamping-details-now-on-website.11431/

 

[johnnycnote]

This thread has your best chance IMO http://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/hot-stamping-details-now-on-website.11431/

^This^

 

[Payback]

I don't know where you get that impression... from everything I've read, they price the different spot levels based on the actual cost of producing them. This is why the lower spot level cost less; they take less time and cause fewer rejects. The spot levels that take multiple careful passes, and which lead to high reject rates, have to cost more.

I got that from David who said that directly in a conversation I had with him. They charge more for the higher spot combinations, but the higher pricing doesn't always offset the difference in the labor and as such the higher levels cut into the profit margin of each chip, for most of the reasons that you mentioned.

 

[bentax1978]

This thread has your best chance IMO http://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/hot-stamping-details-now-on-website.11431/

Agreed. A group buy on a hot-stamped CPC set is about the only way it ever make any sense to do a CPC group buy (IMO). Spreading the costs of a set of hot-stamp dies, assuming everyone could agree on a design, would at least give the group buy a financial advantage. For an inlayed chip, I just don't see the point since there aren't really any discounts/incentives to do so (aside from sharing the design fee, which in my mind is more than offset by the inability to customize the set).

 

[Mental Nomad]

I got that from David who said that directly in a conversation I had with him. They charge more for the higher spot combinations, but the higher pricing doesn't always offset the difference in the labor and as such the higher levels cut into the profit margin of each chip, for most of the reasons that you mentioned.

So, basically, they do those "expensive" patterns for us with little or no profit margin, just so that the community can have beautiful chips... that's appreciated.

 

[BGinGA]

In all seriousness... What would it take to get rounders 2 chips to become a reality ? Catch me up or point me to relevant info if possible.

Rounders "2" chips are already a reality. There are a few different configurations and pr0n of shipped sets here on PCF. I don't have links handy, but the PCF search function is pretty robust.
paging @RainmanTrail @ChaosRock @Mr. Cheese

 

[Mr Tree]

So, basically, they do those "expensive" patterns for us with little or no profit margin, just so that the community can have beautiful chips... that's appreciated.

This is my understanding. The simpler edge spots have a higher margin of profit for CPC

 

[tim722]

Is a hot stamp rounders solid set appealing? What about River Queen tourney ?(extra points if you remember those. ) I will post some stamp designs in the relevant thread later.

Nm about rounders. Just saw post above

 

[Mr. Cheese]

The ones I ordered were stock colors but on the CSQ mold and with a 2k denom instead of the 1k.

 

[johnnycnote]

Solid hot stamps baby! Last HS GB at CT was what, over 4 years ago?

 

[CdnBeerLover]

Solid hot stamps baby! Last HS GB at CT was what, over 4 years ago?

^^^^ This!!!

 

[Quicksilver-75]

Maybe, just maybe if someone like Apache could negotiate with David and work with the community to revive some of the proposed hot stamps apache was offering ie: the mint, havana club....