$2/$2 5-Card PLO Hand #2 - Decision Points on Flop and Turn (2 Viewers)

[Moxie Mike]

Hero is in the BB with a stack of ~$800 and easily covers the table as most stacks are in the $3-$400 range. Hero is the BB.

Villain from the previous hand is the button with a stack of $365. Villain (middle aged ornery guy) seems to be steaming a little. This was about 5 or 6 hands after the hand I posted about last night.

Villain posts a $5 button straddle. SB calls and Hero looks down at and calls. Why? Mainly because I don't like bloating the pot OOP. There's certainly a case to be made for raising.

3 more players limp to the Villain who raises his straddle to $25. Everyone calls. Pot: $150.

The flop comes . SB checks, action is on Hero.

Thoughts?

UPDATE: The hand continues.

Hero considers a 'find out where he's at' bet of $75 but figures a check is better to see what the rest of the table does. Action checks around to the preflop aggressor, who bets $100.

Villain seems like he might be steaming a little. SB folds and Hero elects to call - mainly to see if any of the remaining players jam. Everyone else folds, adding legitimacy to the possibility that the Villain may actually have flopped the nuts.

The turn is . Hero checks and Villain bets $200, leaving about $35 behind.

Thoughts?

Spoiler: Spoiler

Hero tanked for a bit. This seems pretty binary - he either flopped it or he didn't. The fact that he bet into 5 opponents on the flop is more indicative of strength although he may just have been betting since it checked to him. Me flatting the flop bet OOP pretty much tells him what I'm holding... so with the turn bet he's either trying to protect his hand or move Hero off his.

Hero considers that perhaps Villain picked up a flush draw on the turn, but that really doesn't change the binary nature of the situation. Considering the cautious way Villain played the previous hand, Hero leans toward him having it and folds.

 

[krafticus]

ehhh ... you have all of your own outs. Not a fan of the flop. I'm checking this, as bloating the pot could be bad. not many turn cards that come, you'd like

 

[PLOdonk]

Is there a case for raising pre? You’re hoping to hit a medium set / straight / flush.

 

[allforcharity]

I'd be cautious. T8 has you killed until the board pairs, then you've got all the blockers and you can splash to high heaven.

 

[white1ce]

Definitely check, you have all of your own outs. The only thing that ever calls you here is T8 or maybe QT. Re-evaluate on the turn.

 

[JMC9389]

Check, and would even consider folding to a raise. As has been mentioned, you have most of your own outs to improve. Unless the board runs out low, your set of Jack's is unlikely to be good at showdown.

 

[doublebooyah85]

I’d bet pot and try to take it down. Fold to a raise. And pretty much admit defeat with a call.

 

[upNdown]

Yeah I’m not sure that’s a great 5-card starting hand, especially out of position.
We’re already losing to 8-10, and as soon as an overcard comes, our set is in jeopardy.
I’ll check here. I’m trying to imagine how small a raise will have to be, for me call out of position, to see if I can hang around in hopes of catching quads.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I don’t want to throw money away bet folding. Hero is out of position multiple ways with 4 players holding 5 cards each, essentially 1/2 the deck between them. Most likely someone has 10-8. If I can see a cheap turn and somehow fill up that’s what I’m doing. Even if there isn’t a straight yet, KQ10 is a wrap that isn’t going away, 5678 is another wrap. Hero is rarely improving and the board will only get worse for him.

Check fold unless you are closing the action for cheap.

And I would not raise this hand preflop unless it was for deception at a loose passive table.

 

[Moxie Mike]

Update posted. I'm hosting some mixed-game mayhem in an hour, so I'll try to post final thoughts either tonight or tomorrow.

 

[JMC9389]

As played, all in on the turn

 

[FDLmold]

I don't like the hand 5-handed. I'd have folded to the preflop raise. We got a great flop and are still screwed. Fold on the flop, we block all the outs we need.

As played, shit, pile the money in on the turn and pray for a paired board. Is that what, 7 outs?

 

[doublebooyah85]

Hmmm. I’m caught w my hand in the cookie jar.

 

[upNdown]

So it’s something like $235 to win $820? And we have 7 outs if he’s got the straight?
I dont know why the guy didn’t pot the flop if he really flopped the nuts, so I don’t think he has the straight.

It’s gross. I’m glad I folded on the flop.

 

[krafticus]

I mean, we have 7 clean outs, unless the PF guy is overplaying Aces. Could he have AA8 10 double suited??? :/)

 

[JMC9389]

I mean, we have 7 clean outs, unless the PF guy is overplaying Aces. Could he have AA8 10 double suited??? :/)

AA Q10 x, IMO

 

[Rhodeman77]

Villain didn’t bet a weaker made hand with a likely back door flush draw (clubs) last hand but is now betting flop and turn on a board with a possible flopped straight. The chances he is betting anything other than a straight seem slim to me since Hero blocks every set. I don’t see Villain over playing AAxxx when he didn’t bet a stronger hand the last time. Sure it is possible, but I wouldn’t put a lot of merit in it.

 

[WedgeRock]

adding legitimacy to the possibility that the Villain may actually have flopped the nuts.

Villain most certainly didn't flop the nuts, as we had the nuts in the flop.

EDIT: RIF

 

[Highli99]

Hero considers a 'find out where he's at' bet of $75

Those are I'll advised in plo

 

[doublebooyah85]

Those are I'll advised in plo

Haha got my ass kicked in many bomb pots trying to find out where I’m at lol

 

[Highli99]

Haha got my ass kicked in many bomb pots trying to find out where I’m at lol

Especially without the nuts it just makes it easier for opponents to blow you off your equity

 

[Moxie Mike]

Spoiler posted.

 

[Rhodeman77]

In general 5 card hi only is a nut peddling game. Thinking otherwise is a way to lose a lot of money when you level yourself.

 

[Moxie Mike]

In general 5 card hi only is a nut peddling game. Thinking otherwise is a way to lose a lot of money when you level yourself.

Agreed. At the same time, I find myself rebelling against formulaic styles of play. It's why I find NLHE so unstimulating. Anyone can play tight and peddle the nuts. But I think there are edges to be gained by categorizing your opponents and finding exploitative opportunities.

As a quick example, there was a hand in the same session where I called a PFR from the button by a perceivedly aggro player in MP... I caught middle pair on a flop like and called a c-bet - I had a piece of it but I was essentially floating. The turn was an offsuit 10 and he checked to me... I bet 2/3rd pot and he insta-mucked.

That's the type of poker I like to play.

 

[ontheriver51]

If I’m adding this up right, there was $500 in the middle pre. Checking flop makes sense. Calling $100 to win $600 is a no brainer call requiring only ~14% equity. 200 on turn is basically all in and getting 4.5 to 1. If he showed you T8 you’ve got 7 outs requiring ~6-1. It’s a fold