89s in the big blind, 2/5 NLHE (1 Viewer)

[bentax1978]

Played live poker this weekend for the first time in almost three months. Had a good session overall (+$780), but the way I played this hand towards the end of the night bothered me a little. Obviously it's always easier to say these things in hindsight.

7 -handed 2/5 NLHE (it was a 9 person full table, but a couple people happen to be away from the table at the moment).

UTG ($950) calls $5.
Folds all the way around to SB ($700) who raises it to $15.
Hero ($1700) is in BB, looks down at and calls the $15
UTG calls the extra $10.

Three to the flop ($45 less rake in the pot)

Flop is

SB checks, action is on hero.

Hero bets $35. UTG calls, SB calls.

$150 in the pot going into the turn.

Turn is an ace.

SB leads out for $80.

Action is on Hero. Thoughts?



edit: The guy in the SB hasn't really been involved in a ton of hands, seems like a somewhat somewhat tight regular, but that's really just a guess since I've only been at this table for about an hour as I was moved from the feeder table into the main game. The guy UTG seems a bit looser, definitely seeing more a good number of flops, but from what I gather is solid player overall. Almost all of the profit to be made at this table was from two or three guys (none of which were involved in this hand).

 

[kk405]

Calling>raising>folding. I would just call and barring an ace or a 5, I am calling a river bet too. I think he floated with A10, A7, A6 type of a hand and is betting his top pair on the turn.

 

[namsupak]

I am thinking similarly, Ax or maybe even J10s. At least that is what I would do if I were in his position. With the 1/2 pot sized bet I am thinking that I would probably re-raise here. What has the villain shown you during the rest of the session. Curious to hear how it turned out.

 

[bentax1978]

What has the villain shown you during the rest of the session. Curious to hear how it turned out.

The guy in the SB hasn't really been involved in a ton of hands, seems like a somewhat somewhat tight regular, but that's really just a guess since I've only been at this table for about an hour as I was moved from the feeder table into the main game. The guy UTG seems a bit looser, definitely seeing more a good number of flops, but from what I gather is solid player overall. Almost all of the profit to be made at this table was from two or three guys (none of which were involved in this hand).

 

[Rhodeman77]

I like a call here. The A hits the raise range of the pre flop raiser harder that hero. If he has a one pair hand we can get more money in on the river with position. If he is bluffing the A as scare card then we don't want to raise him and have him fold.

We don't want to raise also because if he just turned a better 2 pair we are wasting money now. Play it safe, call and see what the river action brings.

I am guessing UTG will be folding most times, but if he happens to have an A or is on an openender I'd like to keep him in the pot too and raising will push him out for sure.

 

[namsupak]

The guy in the SB hasn't really been involved in a ton of hands, seems like a somewhat somewhat tight regular

After reading this I think AT, A9, A8, all seem reasonable with a 1/2 pot bet. A5 for the tight SB he/she probably folds before the turn. The best play is probably to call especially with UTG being a little looser. Personally if I am going to call $80 I am probably making it $160-$200 then if one of them shoves I'd fold in shame.

 

[bentax1978]

So it seems the current consensus is that calling the $80 is probably the best option, with raising being the alternative.

Any other thoughts before I proceed?

 

[Ben]

Calling. Not loving it. Probably folding to a river bet unless I get some kind of sizing or lollive tell. Line is weird - expect villain to show up with aces up or a slowplayed monster quite often. JT seems unlikely - great flop to barrel if he had that, and if not, why suddenly start barreling the turn? Floated Ax given the other caller and large-ish flop size seems even more unlikely. If he's somehow bluffing or has a worse hand I expect him to give up most times on the river, which is the only way I'm even calling. Call>fold>>>>raise

 

[bentax1978]

So I went with what seems to be the most popular option and called the $80.

Of course what I wasn't expecting was for UTG to raise, which he did. UTG makes it $305 total ($225 on top).

Action goes around to the SB, who folds.

Action is now on me, pot has a little over $600 in it and it's $225 for me to call. UTG has just about $600 left behind after the raise and I have him covered.

Now what?

 

[Ben]

Fold. Best-case scenario (unless you're up against a 33rd-degree GTO type guy who's turning 87 into a bluff here or something) is that UTG has JT or T7, in which case he could still bink. More likely IMO you're drawing near-dead. Putting in another $825 in this spot (which you have to do if you decide to continue) is not going to be +EV.

 

[mummel]

UTG has a set, 8s or 9s? I'd fold here. Sucks.

 

[FDLmold]

...Almost all of the profit to be made at this table was from two or three guys (none of which were involved in this hand)...

And here is I think the best point. There was a 3rd player yet to act. Our hand is decent, our opponents are solid not weak. I'd have raised, then if we get three-bet we know more than if we call and UTG raises like we are discussing now.

 

[bentax1978]

And here is I think the best point. There was a 3rd player yet to act. Our hand is decent, our opponents are solid not weak. I'd have raised, then if we get three-bet we know more than if we call and UTG raises like we are discussing now.

And on some level, this is the crux it and why I posted this hand; I really second guessed my turn call (vs raise) for the reasons you describe above.

 

[Rhodeman77]

If UTG is a really good thinking player it is a great spot to make this bet. Classic squeeze play. But knowing it is a great spot and actually being able to do it as a semi-bluff is another thing entirely.

At this point I would give him credit for a flopped set of 5's. His line makes sense for it. Limp/call the raise with the small pocket pair to see a cheap flop. Flops his set and has a player bet into him that he just Flats hoping for more action.

Turn brings the A that gets the preflop raiser to now bet and a call from the flop bettor. He can't write a hand any better than this!!!

He springs his trap with the check raise on the turn figuring one of the 2 players that have both made bets will pay him off.

I find a fold here.

 

[bentax1978]

If UTG is a really good thinking player it is a great spot to make this bet. Classic squeeze play. But knowing it is a great spot and actually being able to do it as a semi-bluff is another thing entirely.

The instant he raised, my very first thought was "I'm way behind". Right after that my next thought was "I just set him up perfectly to squeeze me".

This would have been a snap fold had he raised after I raised the initial $80 bet from SB. But given that I just called (right or wrong), I had a much tougher decision to make now.

 

[DrStrange]

We are missing villain reads. Maybe hero doesn't have much, but something would be helpful. Even a "three letter" read helps quite a lot ( TAG / LAG for example)

Let's try and range villain. Assume villain is ABC and semi competent.

He limp, calls preflop from UTG. He flats the flop, then raises the turn. Villain could be drawing and making a semi bluff. Villain could have flopped a set. Villain maybe made two pair on the turn, but if so that means he limped/called preflop with ace-rag - possible if suited. On a bad day villain flopped the straight.

It isn't so easy to rank these in order of likeliness - There are only five possible card combinations that flop a set. There are 16 ways to make a flopped straight, but even the suited connectors seem dubious from UTG. JT makes the most sense of the plausible draws, I don't see T7 as very likely. I also don't see much chance of a backdoor flush, maybe or ? would be the most exciting of them all.

Hero is either way behind or comfortably ahead. But Hero is likely to lose more than he wins here.

Absent a villain read telling me something more, I think this is a <sigh> fold.

 

[krafticus]

is 67 out of the question? It is also very possible that he flopped the straight, and thinks the A hit someone hard and he can get paid. I might fold here as well.

Mark

 

[bentax1978]

We are missing villain reads. Maybe hero doesn't have much, but something would be helpful. Even a "three letter" read helps quite a lot ( TAG / LAG for example)

I apologize for that, I should have but the below comment into the OP.

The guy in the SB hasn't really been involved in a ton of hands, seems like a somewhat somewhat tight regular, but that's really just a guess since I've only been at this table for about an hour as I was moved from the feeder table into the main game. The guy UTG seems a bit looser, definitely seeing more a good number of flops, but from what I gather is solid player overall. Almost all of the profit to be made at this table was from two or three guys (none of which were involved in this hand).

 

[Shaggy]

Can anyone see a suited A9 here?

 

[bentax1978]

Hero is either way behind or comfortably ahead. But Hero is likely to lose more than he wins here.

Absent a villain read telling me something more, I think this is a <sigh> fold.

That's ultimately where I ended up in my thought process as I asked for a count of his remaining stack. Either I was comfortably ahead or I was way behind something like a set, aces-up, or even a 76 flopped straight.

After about 30 seconds I decided to raise the white flag and fold my hand.

Of course UTG was pretty confident I threw away a decent made hand at this point, so he decides to turn his cards face up and show the bluff.

I'll admit, I was pretty irritated when I saw it. I'm sure on some level that was his intention in showing me. I played another orbit or two, but recognized that I was tired and not in a great frame of mind to keep playing. So I cashed out my remaining $1580 from my original $800 buy-in, used my comps for that session to buy two hot dog sandwiches on the way out, and I headed home.

I couldn't help but think to myself that if I had just raised the $80 bet from the SB that UTG would almost certainly have not made that move. Of course that's a super easy thing to say now knowing what everyone had. Looking back on the hand, I don't think the $80 call on the turn was terrible, it just didn't work out very well in this situation.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I still think the turn call was the correct play. The SB did fold to the 3 bet, so you wouldn't have made more money from unless he felt he could get you to fold to a river bluff.

Your read of UTG seems wrong now though. Limping 36 suited is not a tight play by any means. But he is a thinking player that realized a good spot to put on a squeeze play.

 

[bentax1978]

Your read of UTG seems wrong now though. Limping 36 suited is not a tight play by any means. But he is a thinking player that realized a good spot to put on a squeeze play.

I actually thought UTG was loose, but seemed like a solid player overall. It was the SB who I perceived as tight.

The guy in the SB hasn't really been involved in a ton of hands, seems like a somewhat somewhat tight regular, but that's really just a guess since I've only been at this table for about an hour as I was moved from the feeder table into the main game. The guy UTG seems a bit looser, definitely seeing more a good number of flops, but from what I gather is solid player overall. Almost all of the profit to be made at this table was from two or three guys (none of which were involved in this hand).

 

[Rhodeman77]

I should have read it three times!

As a loose player that puts 6-7 even more in his range as well. Chalk it up to a great play by an observant opponent.

 

[ChaosRock]

Flat pre, bet flop and raise turn.

 

[bentax1978]

Flat pre, bet flop and raise turn.

And where were you at 11pm when I needed that advice? This is what happens when you're in a time zone 5 hours ahead when I need your help

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I probably would raise the turn, I'm putting SB on a big ace, most likely AK, and don't think he ever has two pair here. However, as played I would fold the turn. All you can beat at this point is a bluff, it just happens that's what you were up against this time.

 

[namsupak]

I couldn't help but think to myself that if I had just raised the $80 bet from the SB that UTG would almost certainly have not made that move.

I agree and that's why I would raise, which I think if at that point you have about 1650 in your stack raising $80 to 120 on top of the initial 80 is reasonable, only about 10-14% of your stack. He either folds or he has you dominated and shoves.

 

[Ben]

I'm not sure where the raise talk is coming from. Raising turn would be a horrifically bad play IMO - SB's lead is very polarized and we're not going to accomplish anything by raising except punting off another $120-$200 in the (fairly likely) event that we aren't good. Well, and I guess discouraging a LAGtard (that we didn't know was a LAGtard previously) from possibly squeezing us with air. (And if we did have prior history indicating that tendency, we would still be better served calling and then calling down his spazz.)

 

[onerand]

I like raising SB's donk on the turn. No monsters under the bed, at best he floated flop and has an ace. We may get value now. This is not a great board, and even if it was heads up I raise because there are many rivers that neither of you like.

For example, if you call, UTG folds and river is a Q or J, are you calling, checking, bet folding?

As am aside, this is a great 3-bet preflop spot. Knock out UTG and play heads up deep in position with a hand that plays well.

As played, tip of the hat to UTG. I fold too. Maybe he spazzed at the right time. But SB donked half pot and you just called, so your hand looks like just a 9.

Flatting also gives UTG 4 to 1 on a call.

 

[mummel]

Always easy after the fact to say what was the right move. The guy played the hand well and won. Good for him. I would have folded too. I would have gone on tilt!!!