8Ts on the button (1 Viewer)

[Leonard]

1/2 NLHE, seven handed.
The game is playing a little small today as most of the bigger fish are absent.
Typical pre-flop raises are $12-15 down from $17-25.

UTG is a loose aggressive player who might be the best at the table on a good day. However, he's on a months long bad run and recently starts to tilt after he loses the first hand. Today he's running good and is up to $600 on $400 buy-in.

Middle position. Another strong player. Tighter than UTG but nearly as aggressive. $425 on $200 buy in.

I have on the button. Sitting on $280 on a $400 buy-in.

One limp to UTG, who also limps. Middle position raises to $15, CO calls. Action to me.

Fold, raise, call?

 

[onerand]

I call because of the button. Otherwise raising has merit.

 

[Jimulacrum]

(How is it one limp to UTG? UTG is first to act.)

Fold.

We're only getting 17 2/3:1 stack odds, barely enough to set-mine (if even, against tough players). It's certainly not enough to chase one-gap suited connectors unless we're going to also have some kind of big edge post-flop (like getting HU with a guy who gets weak too easily post-flop. tons of fold equity).

We also have two aggressive, tough players, one of whom we can expect to be more feisty than usual. Speculative hands like don't play favorably in that kind of field, because there won't be many free or cheap cards, and there won't be many opportunities to successfully semi-bluff. In this spot, we want a hand that is either best now or can get super-strong on the flop—subject to the odds we're getting. Pretty as it is, this hand just doesn't cut it. Not even the button is enough to make it a call.

I could entertain an occasional steal-raise if UTG weren't tilting.

 

[Leonard]

(How is it one limp to UTG? UTG is first to act.)

Point taken. Posting these threads always involves a little "make believe" regarding minor details of the hand. Especially 24 hours after the fact. The relative positions are correct.There were two limps, a raise and a call to me.

 

[MacGrad]

Easy fold.

A mid-sized, one-gap suited connector with a raise from middle position and a call in front of you? Unless the flop smacks you bigly, you're losing money by calling.

(And, if there's anything good that comes out of this election, it's that I'm adding 'bigly' to my vocabulary.)

 

[DrStrange]

I fold, but it is a little close.

Hero has best position with a hand that benefits greatly from position.

The raise is too large relative to Hero's stack size. This hand could easily go three handed or perhaps more, yielding an SPR less than five. That is not a good environment for speculative hands like T8s

The villains seem like they might be sticky. Hero's hand benefits from it's semi-bluffing potential, but in a low SPR pot with sticky villains, the fold equity from a semi-bluff seems rather small.

I rarely support a 3-bet bluff unless the table shows it folds preflop to such a bet or that it plays fit/fold post flop. In this case Hero has little post flop leverage (or threat if you prefer). Hero will have one maybe two bets prior to being all-in, not enough to chase off the kind of villains I envision at this game. We also don't know Hero's table image - maybe he is so nitty tight that the mere act of picking up raising chips would get the table to snap fold. . . . .

DrStrange

 

[Leonard]

Folding doesn't yield much of a strategy post, so I call. UTG calls as well. Four players to the flop, $65 in pot.

Flop

UTG checks to MP who bets $35. One fold and the action is on me.

What now?

L

 

[Trihonda]

I think I flat. But that could be the wrong play. Might be MP has AT with the Nut flush draw? We could be ahead. And normally I like to make ppl who are behind pay for their draws... but in this case, I might play cautiously, pot control in case we are behind?

 

[kirchhausen]

I fold pre, if I'm deeper I call. I do love these types of hands in late positions. The problem with this hand, as Dr. Strange alluded to, is the SPR, it really limits our actions post flop. If we want to raise here (say to $95), we are committing ourselves to the pot.

What if someone check jams? Now we are in a sick spot where we have $170 behind with a $350 pot, and we now we are probably beat. But can we really lay this hand down here when V only has to be bluffing less than 1/3 of the time (especially when we likely have 4 outs to villains most likely holding)?

Take away the hard decisions and fold pre.

As played, I guess just call flop.

 

[thorwilliam]

I would flat as well. I don't want to commit my stack on this flop by raising.

 

[DrStrange]

Play like you would with a made non-nut flush. Do you wait to raise on the turn? I would. Let's peel off one more card for $35 and bomb away on a safe card, but fold to multi-way aggression

 

[mummel]

I would have folded fast pre, and fold now ASAP and call it a day. One more diamond and it's over. So many ways to get bent over a barrel with this hand. MP may be going for a straight. Someone else is looking for a flush. J pair looking for another J or 2nd pair. Unless you get your full house, you're dead.

 

[MacGrad]

I'd be folding 80% of the time, and raising 20%.

Other than another 8 or 10, what card helps us? In all likelihood, we're chasing 2 outs -- and if we're calling here at 3:1 on a 11:1 draw, then we'd be calling on the turn looking for the same 4 cards.

If you think you have the best hand and/or you think the original raiser wouldn't have been betting a made flush, then I'd reraise to $100 and hope to get HU or take it down. If there's a 3-bet, then abort immediately and fold.

 

[DrStrange]

There are a lot of semibluff or over pair plus flush draw hands and maybe pure bluffs in villain's range. We shouldn't ignore the top of villain's range, Hero would hate being against that. But Hero's bottom two pair will often end up as the best hand.

This is not a safe place to continue with the hand, but Hero's hand deserves some attention. A monochrome board is a good place to semibluff, that would be my primary range for villain.

 

[joker80]

where did the rest of the hand go @Leonard