AA+A on the flop, bad shove? (5 Viewers)

[Basti]

Hey everyone,
I am curious what you guys think about this play:

The opponent played many suited hands at the table.
He called my 4-bet pre-flop with me having AA.
I hit AAA on the flop and was afraid of running into a flush post flop and decided to shove.
Should I have played it slower to get more money out of him or was it a correct play?

How would you have acted on the flop?
And what would you have done if another diamond hit on the turn?
If it would have been a rainbow flop I would have bet maybe 15-20 BB.

Greetings from Germany

 

[springbox]

Hmm, it's close. You have 59 BB and there's 37.5 BB in the middle, so I don't hate just shoving. Betting small, like 1/4~1/2 pot then jamming the turn works better imo.

I will say, the reasoning of trying to scare off a flush draw is bad. You have a set of Aces, you want to bet the largest amount that you think they'll call. All I'd think about here is how to get all the money in. With 77BB to start the hand and a set on the flop going broke against a flush would still be the right way to play the hand, because you're making so much every time they don't have the flush.

I would probably bet ~10BB on the flop and jam literally any turn.

 

[Thomacetti]

So you think he called your 18BB 4-bet with Ks ?
Could be...but i'm always checking on that flop to induce action since you are OOP....or bet max half pot (30BB) if you want protection.

 

[Basti]

Small update

 

[Basti]

So you think he called your 18BB 4-bet with Ks ?
Could be...but i'm always checking on that flop to induce action since you are OOP....or bet max half pot if you want protection.

I think he would have called the 4-bet with many suited hands, he was a very loose and aggressive player playing most suited hands, maybe something like KQs

 

[Basti]

he just shoved another 100 BB with T8s

 

[chopper]

Post flop I looking to check/raise

 

[Thomacetti]

he was a very loose and aggressive player playing most suited hands, maybe something like KQs

Now I even want to check even more...and jam on every bet he makes

 

[Basti]

Hmm, it's close. You have 59 BB and there's 37.5 BB in the middle, so I don't hate just shoving. Betting small, like 1/4~1/2 pot then jamming the turn works as well too.

I will say, the reasoning of trying to scare off a flush draw is bad. You have a set of Aces, you want to bet the largest amount that you think they'll call. All I'd think about here is how to get all the money in. With 77BB to start the hand and a set on the flop going broke against a flush would still be the right way to play the hand, because you're making so much every time they don't have the flush.

I would probably bet ~10BB on the flop and jam literally any turn.

yeaaah I think what I can learn from this is that top set should never be scared of flush draws, ever (unless I'm in the bubble for life changing money maybe)

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Looking at that board, what suited combo are you scared of? I hate the shove, it lets your opponent play perfectly against you very easily. Bet 15 BB instead, or check raise.

Edit: Ill soften it a bit, is your opponent calling 4bets with suited what? Ad is already out there. KQdd, calling 4bets? JTdd? QJdd? Those are really bad plays, you want those hands to keep paying you, dont be an OMC.

 

[springbox]

yeaaah I think what I can learn from this is that top set should never be scared of flush draws, ever (unless I'm in the bubble for life changing money maybe)

Certainly not 77BB deep. 500BB deep you might worry about it.

 

[Basti]

Now I even want to check even more...and jam on every bet he makes

yeaah... that's what I will do in similar situations from now on, makes 100% sense

 

[Basti]

Looking at that board, what suited combo are you scared of? I hate the shove, it lets your opponent play perfectly against you very easily. Bet 15 BB instead, or check raise.

Edit: Ill soften it a bit, is your opponent calling 4bets with suited what? Ad is already out there. KQdd, calling 4bets? JTdd? QJdd? Those are really bad plays, you want those hands to keep paying you, dont be an OMC.

In my mind I wanted to get rid of all flush draws, but I realize thats irrational

 

[Thomacetti]

In my mind I wanted to get rid of all flush draws, but I realize thats -EV

FYP

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

In my mind I wanted to get rid of all flush draws, but I realize thats irrational

GOOD! This is why we talk through these things. Opponents can smell that, they can easily fold when you are way way ahead, shove screams it. That same fear of not being ahead will prevent you from betting to represent a hand you don't have.

If you cant feel secure with top set on a board like that, take a second and think of situations where you will. Is it only A-8-3 rainbow? 4bets are polarizing, hes calling with far less, lots of AK/AQ but you block, so I see KK, QQ, perhaps TT.

not many suited connectors are making it there, and then even when they do far less of them will be diamonds, even then most times a 3rd diamond wont come.

 

[Basti]

GOOD! This is why we talk through these things. Opponents can smell that, they can easily fold when you are way way ahead, shove screams it. That same fear of not being ahead will prevent you from betting to represent a hand you don't have.

If you cant feel secure with top set on a board like that, take a second and think of situations where you will. Is it only A-8-3 rainbow? 4bets are polarizing, hes calling with far less, lots of AK/AQ but you block, so I see KK, QQ, perhaps TT.

not many suited connectors are making it there, and then even when they do far less of them will be diamonds, even then most times a 3rd diamond wont come.

My thought process should have been something like:
If he has 2 diamonds he has 9 outs minus the J, so 8x4 ~ 32% of hitting the potential flush, but then I have to reduce the 32% because it is more likely he has no suited diamonds, so probably way under 20% of him winning on the turn/river, so at this point I should just maximize my money

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

My thought process should have been something like:
If he has 2 diamonds he has 9 outs minus the J, so 8x4 ~ 32% of hitting the potential flush, but then I have to reduce the 32% because it is more likely he has no suited diamonds, so probably way under 20% of him winning on the turn/river, so at this point I should just maximize my money

You have very little info other than he called a 4bet preflop. If we bomb it, everything folds except a great draw (and JJ I guess), and when the draw gets there we complain about luck when we ensure that we would lose the maximum lol

 

[Basti]

You have very little info other than he called a 4bet preflop. If we bomb it, everything folds except a great draw (and JJ I guess), and when the draw gets there we complain about luck when we ensure that we would lose the maximum lol

every time I saw his hand it was some kind of suited hand, but I just disregarded odds against him and got scared for no reason, even if he has a suited hand or even diamonds I should not be affected by that

 

[JMC9389]

No way am I shoving. I'm betting 1/3 pot to keep those drawing hands in when I'm 60 BB's deep. I can understand shoving if I have 10 or 15 BB left, but not 60. This is a tournament, right?

 

[Basti]

No way am I shoving. I'm betting 1/3 pot to keep those drawing hands in when I'm 60 BB's deep. I can understand shoving if I have 10 or 15 BB left, but not 60. This is a tournament, right?

it's a small stakes cash game, I just always have BB on

 

[TankingRowlet]

Bombing flop with that board means opponent is unlikely to call as this was a 4-bet preflop since that screams a strong Ace.
Only hands may get here that continue in my mind are KQs, JJ, or the last A with wheel or broadway card. Hard for opponent to want to continue since they'd only have Ac possible.

Maybe could have gotten an extra 25% pot (15BB~) as opponent may call a small bet if they have some kind of straight or flush draw potential, though you pretty much guaranteed the pot after seeing the turn.

 

[Colquhoun]

So your original thinking was,”I want to push and scare him away before he has a chance to catch up.” You’re essentially reducing his risk, which is the last thing you want.
But if you bet smaller, you give him a chance to make the error of chasing that flush. If he does happen to catch up, that’s poker. But if you can force him to keep calling when he shouldn’t, you’ll be way ahead with this opponent in the long run.