Tourney Budget Mystery Bounty Tournament - Payout Ideas? (1 Viewer)

[Choketastic]

Hi all. Been browsing and admiring for years but not posted yet. As title suggests I would like some advice on the payout structure for a mystery bounty tournament

UK based, we play a weekly friendly pub game with a mix of noobs and experienced players who would like to play a mystery bounty. We play a standard single KO bounty and the players LOVE IT! The problem we have is the average turnout is low (but growing), with anywhere from between 14-20 players and the buy in is a mere £10+£10 with equal split between prize pool and bounties. It's a fun social night, not massively competitve. Similar to RedTooth Poker for those that know

My current plan: at the start put the prizes into envelopes away from sight and then assign a prize at random to each number for every player in play. Players pick a random number from the list and get handed that envelope when exchanging bounty chip. They do not get to see the envelopes to try and guess the prize.
Rules:
- Players cannot let others know their prize until the end.
- Players can choose whenever to exchange their bounty.
- Tournament organiser who will also be playing and knows the prizes, can only get the remaining bounties leftover (or a player chooses for them if they need to leave early).

We average 16 players, £160 so this is roughly what I was thinking:
1= £40
2= £30
3= £25
4= £20
5= £20
6= £15
7= £1 Scratchcard
8= £1 Scratchcard
9= £1 Scratchcard
10= £1 Scratchcard
11= £1 Scratchcard
12= £1 Scratchcard
13= £1 Scratchcard
14= £1 Scratchcard
15= £1 Scratchcard
16= £1 Scratchcard


We are a very humble group and winning £50+ is a big poker win for many new players in the group. Whilst it pales into comparison with some of the games posted here, we still want to make it work Any advice on improvements?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Cool and creative. I definitely would want the tournament organizer and player to be part of it, why cant you just fully randomize? No numbers, everyone gets an envelope with a slip of paper they themselves can read when they arrive. Same game but theres not the element of the host targetting a big bounty.

 

[TheRealStephen12]

Most mystery bounty tournaments only give bounties later in the tournament. If you want to do bounties for every player with a high top bounty, I'd do the following:

For the first 12 players:
6x £5
3x £10
2x £20
1x Top Bounty

The Top Bounty starts at £20 for every player beyond the first 12, add another £5 bounty and add £5 to the top bounty. This would mean a £30-60 for the top bounty for 14-20 players.

 

[Choketastic]

Cool and creative. I definitely would want the tournament organizer and player to be part of it, why cant you just fully randomize? No numbers, everyone gets an envelope with a slip of paper they themselves can read when they arrive. Same game but theres not the element of the host targetting a big bounty.

Thanks for the compliment and input


I figured if the host gets the leftover bounties there is no chance they can fix it but I guess some kinda collusion can occur. Thanks for the idea I will fine tune so host has no chance of fixing

 

[Choketastic]

Most mystery bounty tournaments only give bounties later in the tournament. If you want to do bounties for every player with a high top bounty, I'd do the following:

For the first 12 players:
6x £5
3x £10
2x £20
1x Top Bounty

The Top Bounty starts at £20 for every player beyond the first 12, add another £5 bounty and add £5 to the top bounty. This would mean a £30-60 for the top bounty for 14-20 players.

My original idea was to have only the final table pay bounties but I feel like the casual players will not like missing out on the action as they are often the first players to get felted.

Please forgive me as I'm trying to rack my brain around the prize pool here

Could you please make a list showing how you would do your style payout?

 

[TheRealStephen12]

This is what I thought:

14 players: 8x £5, 3x £10, 2x £20, 1x £30
15 players: 9x £5, 3x £10, 2x £20, 1x £35
16 players: 10x £5, 3x £10, 2x £20, 1x £40
17 players: 11x £5, 3x £10, 2x £20, 1x £45
18 players: 12x £5, 3x £10, 2x £20, 1x £50
19 players: 13x £5, 3x £10, 2x £20, 1x £55
20 players: 14x £5, 3x £10, 2x £20, 1x £60

If you don't want such a large top bounty with a lot of players, you can take £5 from the top bounty and change a £5 bounty to a £10. Say you wanted to cap the highest bounty at £50, you could do:

19 players: 12x £5, 4x £10, 2x £20, 1x £50
20 players: 12x £5, 5x £10, 2x £20, 1x £50

Hopefully this works for you, or if not that you're in a better position to develop a system that works for you. I've never set one up or played one, but I feel these give enough excitement with the high bounties while keeping the others a good prize for knocking somebody out.

 

[Choketastic]

This is what I thought:

14 players: 8x £5, 3x £10, 2x £20, 1x £30
15 players: 9x £5, 3x £10, 2x £20, 1x £35
16 players: 10x £5, 3x £10, 2x £20, 1x £40
17 players: 11x £5, 3x £10, 2x £20, 1x £45
18 players: 12x £5, 3x £10, 2x £20, 1x £50
19 players: 13x £5, 3x £10, 2x £20, 1x £55
20 players: 14x £5, 3x £10, 2x £20, 1x £60

If you don't want such a large top bounty with a lot of players, you can take £5 from the top bounty and change a £5 bounty to a £10. Say you wanted to cap the highest bounty at £50, you could do:

19 players: 12x £5, 4x £10, 2x £20, 1x £50
20 players: 12x £5, 5x £10, 2x £20, 1x £50

Hopefully this works for you, or if not that you're in a better position to develop a system that works for you. I've never set one up or played one, but I feel these give enough excitement with the high bounties while keeping the others a good prize for knocking somebody out.

Thank you so much for the thoughtful reply
Your structure is very straight forward when you write it out and the advantage to this is it's easier to map out for others when I can't host
Thanks for taking the time to write it out, hopefully others benefit as well

 

[TheRealStephen12]

No problem! Again, I do not have personal experience, but I would think this is a good balance between a large enough bounty to be excited for while having a large enough prize for small ones. It also creates a system so the players know what to expect the bounties to be and not feel like it's entirely up to what you decide for the evening.

To prepare beforehand, have sheets of paper (not cash, since it could more easily be spotted) in envelopes. Assuming there's no cap on the top bounty, separate the top six bounties (£10, £20, and Top Bounty) envelopes from the stack of £5. The night of, add in a £5 for each player beyond the first six that play, shuffle them, and it's ready to run.

Let me know how it goes!

 

[TheRealStephen12]

@Choketastic have you played the tournament yet? If so, how did it go?

 

[CincinattiKiddo]

Sound like a nice plan! I have a mystery bounty tournament planned this sunday.

The mystery bounty is received when you bust someone.

This is the first time we try something like this, ill update after sunday how it went.

 

[TheRealStephen12]

Sound like a nice plan! I have a mystery bounty tournament planned this sunday.

This is the first time we try something like this, ill update after sunday how it went.

How did your tournament go?

 

[Choketastic]

@Choketastic have you played the tournament yet? If so, how did it go?

We haven't yet as we decided on a monthly basis a progressive knockout and regular bounty tournaments would be easier and so a mystery bounty will be saved for end of season events.

I do believe however that there will be a chance to do one at the end of this month I will let you know how it goes

I made up two tables for payouts which I think both work. One with scratchcards and one without. Lemme know what you think. Leaning towards your style as more fair

 

[TheRealStephen12]

I have a few thoughts:

1. Looking at the first schedule, you have a large number of unique amounts. If you like it that way, then skip to point 2. I restructured mine so the money gets spread more than the one I first posted with only amounts of £5, 10, 20, and one top bounty (for more than 24 players, see bottom of message*).

12: 6x £5, 4x £10, 1x £20, 1x £30
13: 6x £5, 5x £10, 1x £20, 1x £30
14: 6x £5, 6x £10, 1x £20, 1x £30
15: 8x £5, 4x £10, 2x £20, 1x £30
16: 8x £5, 5x £10, 2x £20, 1x £30
17: 8x £5, 6x £10, 2x £20, 1x £30
18: 9x £5, 6x £10, 2x £20, 1x £35
19: 9x £5, 7x £10, 2x £20, 1x £35
20: 9x £5, 8x £10, 2x £20, 1x £35
21: 11x £5, 6x £10, 3x £20, 1x £35
22: 11x £5, 7x £10, 3x £20, 1x £35
23: 11x £5, 8x £20, 3x £20, 1x £35
24: 12x £5, 8x £10, 3x £20, 1x £40

2. If you want to include scratchcards:
Since you're running a £40 tournament, you can double the number of bounties by adding one scratchcard per player. It changes the buy-in from £30+10 to £29+11 (both of which are reasonably balanced). Give both the winner and loser of the eliminating hand a bounty each, which will ensure everybody will win at least a £1 scratchcard. Follow the regular schedule for the remainder of the bounties.

Hope this helps with your decisions, and definitely let me know what you decide to do.

*To continue the pattern for more than 24 players if your game grows beyond that, do the following:

For every 6 additional players: add 3x £5, 2x £10, 1x £20, and increase the top bounty by £5.

For any additional players fewer than the next multiple of 6, do the following:

1 additional player: add 1x £10
2 add'l players: add 2x £10
3 add'l players: add 2x £5 and 1x £20
4 add'l players: add 2x £5, 1x £10, and 1x £20
5 add'l players: add 2x £5, 2x £10, and 1x £20

 

[TheRealStephen12]

I have a few thoughts:

1. Looking at the first schedule, you have a large number of unique amounts. If you like it that way, then skip to point 2. I restructured mine so the money gets spread more than the one I first posted with only amounts of £5, 10, 20, and one top bounty (for more than 24 players, see bottom of message*).

12: 6x £5, 4x £10, 1x £20, 1x £30
13: 6x £5, 5x £10, 1x £20, 1x £30
14: 6x £5, 6x £10, 1x £20, 1x £30
15: 8x £5, 4x £10, 2x £20, 1x £30
16: 8x £5, 5x £10, 2x £20, 1x £30
17: 8x £5, 6x £10, 2x £20, 1x £30
18: 9x £5, 6x £10, 2x £20, 1x £35
19: 9x £5, 7x £10, 2x £20, 1x £35
20: 9x £5, 8x £10, 2x £20, 1x £35
21: 11x £5, 6x £10, 3x £20, 1x £35
22: 11x £5, 7x £10, 3x £20, 1x £35
23: 11x £5, 8x £20, 3x £20, 1x £35
24: 12x £5, 8x £10, 3x £20, 1x £40

2. If you want to include scratchcards:
Since you're running a £40 tournament, you can double the number of bounties by adding one scratchcard per player. It changes the buy-in from £30+10 to £29+11 (both of which are reasonably balanced). Give both the winner and loser of the eliminating hand a bounty each, which will ensure everybody will win at least a £1 scratchcard. Follow the regular schedule for the remainder of the bounties.

Hope this helps with your decisions, and definitely let me know what you decide to do.

*To continue the pattern for more than 24 players if your game grows beyond that, do the following:

For every 6 additional players: add 3x £5, 2x £10, 1x £20, and increase the top bounty by £5.

For any additional players fewer than the next multiple of 6, do the following:

1 additional player: add 1x £10
2 add'l players: add 2x £10
3 add'l players: add 2x £5 and 1x £20
4 add'l players: add 2x £5, 1x £10, and 1x £20
5 add'l players: add 2x £5, 2x £10, and 1x £20

I just realized the top bounty is £40, not a £40 buy-in. I adjusted it slightly so the bounty becomes £40 at 21 players instead of 24:

12: 6x £5, 4x £10, 1x £20, 1x £30
13: 6x £5, 5x £10, 1x £20, 1x £30
14: 6x £5, 6x £10, 1x £20, 1x £30
15: 7x £5, 6x £10, 1x £20, 1x £35
16: 7x £5, 7x £10, 1x £20, 1x £35
17: 7x £5, 8x £10, 1x £20, 1x £35
18: 9x £5, 6x £10, 2x £20, 1x £35
19: 9x £5, 7x £10, 2x £20, 1x £35
20: 9x £5, 8x £10, 2x £20, 1x £35
21: 10x £5, 8x £10, 2x £20, 1x £40
22: 10x £5, 9x £10, 2x £20, 1x £40
23: 10x £5, 10x £10, 2x £20, 1x £40
24: 12x £5, 8x £10, 3x £20, 1x £40

For every 6 additional players: add 3x £5, 2x £10, 1x £20, and increase the top bounty by £5.

For any additional players fewer than the next multiple of 6, do the following:

1 additional player: add 1x £10
2 add'l players: add 2x £10
3 add'l players: add 1x £5, 2x £10, and £5 to the top bounty
4 add'l players: add 1x £5, 3x £10, and £5 to the top bounty
5 add'l players: add 1x £5, 4x £10, and £5 to the top bounty

 

[TudiscoKid]

I also run Mystery Bounty tournaments, only with one table though! (9 players tops)

The way I do it is, everyone's assigned a bounty chip, which they give to the player who eliminated them. Only players in the money get to use their bounty to pick as many envelopes as bounties they have. There a total of 30 Envelopes with prizes ranging from $0 to 100% of the Mystery Bounty Prize Pool.

You can see the breakdown below (all currencies are in Mexican pesos, 500 pesos is roughly $25 USD). The buy-in is 1300 pesos: 500 pesos from the buy-in go into the Bounty Prize Pool, and 800 pesos from the buy-in go into the Main Prize Pool.

Mystery Bounty Prize Pool (left) - Main Prize Pool (right)​

There are 2 enveloppes containing 2 Golden Stars, if a player gets both, they get 100% of the Bounty Prize Pool.
The unwon bounty prize pool carries over to the next session, making it a progressive Bounty Prize Pool, same as a Jackpot.

I find this to be working well, maybe I should make some adjustments such as adding a third gold star so it's not that hard to win 100% of the Prize Pool, but the goal is to have it grow so it becomes more attractive.

I'm open to feedback!

 

[TheRealStephen12]

I also run Mystery Bounty tournaments, only with one table though! (9 players tops)

The way I do it is, everyone's assigned a bounty chip, which they give to the player who eliminated them. Only players in the money get to use their bounty to pick as many envelopes as bounties they have. There a total of 30 Envelopes with prizes ranging from $0 to 100% of the Mystery Bounty Prize Pool.

You can see the breakdown below (all currencies are in Mexican pesos, 500 pesos is roughly $25 USD). The buy-in is 1300 pesos: 500 pesos from the buy-in go into the Bounty Prize Pool, and 800 pesos from the buy-in go into the Main Prize Pool.

View attachment 1397899View attachment 1397900

Mystery Bounty Prize Pool (left) - Main Prize Pool (right)​

There are 2 enveloppes containing 2 Golden Stars, if a player gets both, they get 100% of the Bounty Prize Pool.
The unwon bounty prize pool carries over to the next session, making it a progressive Bounty Prize Pool, same as a Jackpot.

I find this to be working well, maybe I should make some adjustments such as adding a third gold star so it's not that hard to win 100% of the Prize Pool, but the goal is to have it grow so it becomes more attractive.

I'm open to feedback!

That sounds crazy. I wouldn't make the stars 100% of the prize pool, maybe just the largest chunk of it. It's also hard to pick both stars out of 30 envelopes (1 in 435 if you get two envelopes). If you want to do the stars still but make it easier (since you wouldn't be playing for the jackpot, I'd do the following:

First, add $100 per player to the jackpot total

Bounties:
2x Stars ($600 each + jackpot for both)
2x $50 per player
?x $300 (one for each player after 4)

This ensures that it's frequent enough that the jackpot hits and will likely have a few thousand in it when it does (it's a 1/3 chance for somebody who wins 4 of 9 bounties, 1/12 for 3 of 9 bounties). The math does add up, and will pay out correctly each time assuming you don't input the number of players incorrectly. Let me know what you think or if you want it changed.

 

[TudiscoKid]

That sounds crazy. I wouldn't make the stars 100% of the prize pool, maybe just the largest chunk of it. It's also hard to pick both stars out of 30 envelopes (1 in 435 if you get two envelopes). If you want to do the stars still but make it easier (since you wouldn't be playing for the jackpot, I'd do the following:

First, add $100 per player to the jackpot total

Bounties:
2x Stars ($600 each + jackpot for both)
2x $50 per player
?x $300 (one for each player after 4)

This ensures that it's frequent enough that the jackpot hits and will likely have a few thousand in it when it does (it's a 1/3 chance for somebody who wins 4 of 9 bounties, 1/12 for 3 of 9 bounties). The math does add up, and will pay out correctly each time assuming you don't input the number of players incorrectly. Let me know what you think or if you want it changed.

Thanks for the feedback, I didn't understand it all though lol

I've decided to add $300 to each of the Golden Stars envelope, which means that the player will at least cash out something from picking one Golden Star.
There are also 3 Premium envelopes, each containing 40%, 25% and 15% of the Bounty Prize Pool. Right now it respectively sits at $2,000, $1,200 and $750.

The aim is to have the Bounty Prize Pool grow over sessions to be more attractive. Since we play this tournament only once a month, it'd take a looong time to replenish if someone won too much from it. So I guess you're right, maybe not 100% of it can be won with the two golden stars, but maybe 80% would make more sense.

The Bounty Prize Pool for the next Mystery Bounty tournament. This is a separate Prize Pool from the Main Prize Pool which will be around $9,000.

 

[TheRealStephen12]

I meant winning it all and leaving other prizes as $0 except for the lower prizes. I'd only add one way to win any part of the jackpot. I'll try to expound on my idea:

I want each game to be on it's own, with a simplistic jackpot. Each game has a number of envelopes equal to the number of players.

Two envelopes have golden stars. Each golden star is worth $600. In addition, you will win the jackpot if you earn both golden stars in a single tournament.

The jackpot is increased by $100 for each player in the tournament. If the jackpot stands at $1,600 and 8 players play in the next tournament, the jackpot for the tournament will be $1,600 + 8 x $100 or $2,400. If it is not won, it will roll over to the next game.

Two envelopes will have a prize of $50 per player in the tournament. If 8 players play in a tournament, each of these prizes will be worth $50 x 8 or $400.

One additional envelope for each player beyond the first four will be added and have a value of $300. If 8 players in a tournament, 8 players - 4 means 4 x $300 prizes will be in the pool.

This means for our hypothetical tournament:

2x Stars worth $600 are available (a jackpot of $2,400 is available if a single player wins both).

2x $400 envelopes are available.

4x $300 envelopes are available.

Each elimination will award one bounty, and the winner of the tournament will win the bounty for eliminating second place, plus the one remaining bounty prize.

 

[Choketastic]

Field Report:
As it was Halloween I decided to run a Trick or Treat Mystery Bounty!
The cash prizes being the treat and the scratchcards being the trick

We play super small stakes in the UK pub scene so buy in was £10+£10.

We had envelopes with a number written on them that were empty. Then prizes were put into another set of envelopes numbered the same and kept seperate.
Players pulled an envelope from a bag and as they were empty there was no way of gaming it to try and pull a big prize.
They then went to banker and cashed in their empty envelope for their numbered equivalent with a prize.
The prize envelopes were mixed up as well so it wasn't a case of the higest or lowest number was the top prize.
The organiser/banker had other players pull an envelope for them to further avoid scandals

I understand that mystery bounties usually pay on 2nd day or in the money or final table or whatever but with a tiny field and with our casual player base I don't think they would appreciate knocking a player out and not getting a chance to win.

Went with the scratchcards and cash prize approach this time and I agree that scratchards/£1 prizes are lame but;
- It fit the theme of Halloween Trick or Treat. Banter ensued when smug players pulled the trick scratchcards
- Allowed for a larger top prize
- A player won £6 on their scratchcard so gambling on top of gambling which was fun

The next one we do will be without scratchcards and October/Halloween events we will keep them

It went really well! Created a lot of action to KO players!
The only blip was the top prize was claimed first pull by someone who went and told everyone after being told to keep it to themselves This killed the buzz a little for the final 3 opening their envelopes at the end on a chop.

 

[TheRealStephen12]

Thank you for telling me, can you say what the bounties all were? I love the math behind poker tournaments now so it would be fun to see how you did it.