Defending your blinds? (1 Viewer)

[upNdown]

What do you folks think about defending your blinds? I get that it’s almost always mathematically correct to do it with just about any hand, and especially when there’s antes, but I just hate doing it.
Does it make sense to follow those odds calculators? Sure, even 72o will beat aces 12% of the time, but that doesn’t calculate in the fact that you have to play that whole hand out of position. If you smash the flop, great. But if not, your odds are dramatically different at that point, and you’re screwed.
Am I crazy?

 

[detroitdad]

I only defend the blinds if I think I can win the hand.

 

[Kain8]

I need a pretty good hand to defend against a single raise since I'm out of position for the whole hand. Pairs from deuces to eights, suited aces, suited broadways, suited connectors 76+, and some high card hands that are unsuited JTo+ are pretty much auto calls from either blind position. Other than that, blinds are just necessary evils and are just the tax everyone pays. If I have to surrender often, so be it.

 

[RowdyRawhide]

I'm not defending my blinds with 3 bettors in front of me sitting on 72o

 

[PlaidDragon]

Depends what odds I'm getting to call as well as whether I'm already facing a 3-bet or worse.

 

[Beakertwang]

I never fold my small blind to limpers. Ever. I'm likely to call 2-3xBB raises from either blind with almost any two cards depending on number of callers. I don't consider it defending, but rather calculating the pot odds, and what I win if I hit the flop big, compared to my minimal losses if I don't connect. Plus, I don't mind playing out of position. Maybe I'm stupid and wasteful, but I am a bad poker player, after all.

 

[Forty4]

I like defending in the early rounds where it won’t cost me as much and hopefully set a precedent for later rounds. I’ve Also changed my point of view on this recently as blind vs blind cost me dearly in a tournament two weeks ago, twice.

 

[Psypher1000]

I think in many situations the concept of "defending your blinds" is a losing proposition, or at least an incorrect way of thinking. There's nothing to defend. The money/chips are already gone and in the pot. Instead, you're choosing whether or not to fight to get them back *right now*. Don't think of it as defending something, but rather just focus on making a good situational poker decision.

 

[Lemonzest]

Delineating between tourney or cash makes a difference. In tournaments, the structure and blind levels dictate how to play in the blinds.

In cash, I play pretty passively in the small blind when facing a raise. It can never be that bad to just complete but calling raises from the small blind with weak holdings is a massive leak.

Getting entangled in a hand in the spirit of "defending your blind" can be expensive. Let's say you have something like Q8 or K7 and you call a raise from SB. Those are great hands to hit a pair with only to get out kicked. Even ace rag is questionable. Even when you pair the Ace you are likely behind if the aggressor keeps firing.

These are the kinds of hands where you can get taken to value town on all 3 streets because Villain just started with a better hand.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Against relatively small raises, it can matter that you're getting better odds, both direct pot odds and implied odds. For that reason, I will call in the SB or BB with an extremely wide range against a min or near-min raise. But it has to be with a hand I'd be willing to play otherwise on its own merits. There are plenty of hands I won't play even to a min-raise on my BB.

If I look down at T4o, 83o or 27o, I'm folding even to a min raise. It's not just a question of the pot odds, but of the implied odds working against you rather than in your favor. Hands like that will more often than not just get you into trouble.

Sure, you may flop quads or a full house once in a great while, but the vast majority of hands you hit will be one-pair hands that are no good and two-pair hands that are very vulnerable. Even if you get trips, you will have kicker problems, and the one-card straights and flushes you hit will be chopping at best if you get any action. Slightly less-bad hands like J7o and Q2o aren't always auto-folds depending on the competition, but they have similar problems, and I'm usually happy to fold them and go get a plate of nachos while I wait.

As the raise size increases, the presence of the posted blind makes less and less of a difference. If I'm in my BB and someone raises it to 8 times the blind, I'm liable to play even tighter than I would outside the blinds (since then I'd at least have better position).

TLDR: Defending the blinds is a great way to get yourself into trouble with hands you wouldn't otherwise play.

*This is all with regard to cash games. Tournaments are a whole different animal.

 

[Mojo1312]

Playing four handed around 1:30 a.m. Saturday when I raised UTG with pocket nines. All three players called. Flop: 2c,9c,2s.
Checked around. Turn card: J?. Checked to me. I bet. Call. SB raised. BB eyed the raiser with suspicion and called. I flatted as did the button.

River card: All I remember is it put the club flush on the board. Check, check again. I bet once more, get called and raised as before. BB calls. I go all-in for what I had left. The button folds. I had a real difficult time believing that I may have run into pocket Jacks, but it did cross my mind when I was snapped called by the SB for the rest of his chips. BB (the big stack) also called.
(J,2 maybe??)

Nope. SB had 2,6 off-suit and the BB had JH,9H.

Keep defending your SB with any two cards buddy.

 

[Lemonzest]

Playing four handed around 1:30 a.m. Saturday when I raised UTG with pocket nines. All three players called. Flop: 2c,9c,2s.
Checked around. Turn card: J?. Checked to me. I bet. Call. SB raised. BB eyed the raiser with suspicion and called. I flatted as did the button.

River card: All I remember is it put the club flush on the board. Check, check again. I bet once more, get called and raised as before. BB calls. I go all-in for what I have left. The button folds. I had a real difficult time believing that I may have run into pocket Jacks, but it did cross my mind when I was snapped called by the SB for the rest of his chips. BB (the big stack) also called.
(J,2 maybe??)

Nope. SB had 2,6 off-suit and the BB had JH,9H.

Keep defending your SB with any two cards buddy.

It is a fun hand. However, much more often the flop comes A,K,Q,J, or 10 high and then what do you do with weak holdings even if you pair the board?

Like the board comes K92 and you have 62 in the small blind. How do you make money here? Playing really weak hands doesn't make sense from nearly any position. Hands like:26,27,28,29,36,37,38,39,48,49,59 or 69.

While very weak, hands that peak my interest at times are more connected versions of the weak hands. No ones sees straights coming when you come in holding 35,46,68,23,24.

While 24 is technically weaker than 62 in terms of hitting a pair, I favour playing 35 or 24 than 62, 72, 82 etc.

 

[upNdown]

*This is all with regard to cash games. Tournaments are a whole different animal.

I'm waiting for chapter two. Tournaments are pretty much all I play these days.

 

[v1pe]

I think you need to be much tighter in the small blind than you should be in the BB. Not only are your odds not as good, but I'm the SB you aren't closing the action, which is a huge deal. You can be more liberal if you have someone in the BB that you think is very tight and will check back w most of the time.

You can definitely defend the BB very wide if closing the action and facing a 2-3.5x open and at least one caller. Again, I'd be very wary when facing an early position open limp with a raise behind, as the EP open limper might be looking to raise.

I might defend my BB facing a normal sized raise and closing the action with a range like this:

 

[DoubleEagle]

The biggest problem with defending is you are out of position the rest of the hand.

 

[v1pe]

The biggest problem with defending is you are out of position the rest of the hand.

Yes, you certainly have to proceed with caution, especially against an early position raiser.

 

[detroitdad]

Yes, you certainly have to proceed with caution, especially against an early position raiser.

Or, go all in to find out where your at?

 

[v1pe]

Or, go all in to find out where your at?

Sure, that works

 

[Pesto628]

Definitely depends on whether or not it is a tourney or cash and if you are BB or sb.

In a cash game I have a wider call range from BB then I do the sb since you still have the BB to act behind you. It also depends on what position raises as players closer to the button tend to have a wider open range.

In a tourney with antes, a lot of the time it is hard to let anything go from the blinds besides the absolute worst hands.

 

[Quicksilver-75]

Defend the blinds if you have an outside chance of killing the flop, have a premium hand or sense weak play.
I am one who believes "pot commitment" is usually a phrase thrown out to explain poor play or a bad read. Cut your losses asap.
Defending blinds with shit cards almost always comes back to haunt you.