Favorite Non-Hold'em Variants (1 Viewer)

[Jimulacrum]

I see a lot of NLHE strategy questions in this subforum, but I know a lot of you like to play other games too.

My top two favorites should be pretty evident, but there are two more like a lot: Double Board Omaha and Big O (or Big Easy, or really any version of Omaha 8 with extra cards). In general, I really like split-pot games, and I especially like split-pot games where there's a lot of nuance when it comes to the math behind scooping, splitting, or quartering.

What are your favorite variants other than Hold'em? Why? What makes your favorite game better than others? What interesting strategy considerations have you found in that game?

 

[Coyote]

Traditionally, playing with 3 hole cards, with all 3, down to 2 of them useable (never just one or none) was the norm here.
With 5 board cards, it admittedly produces too high a variance (despite the somewhat limiting factor of not less than 2 hole cards).
With just 3 board cards (still dealt in 3 follow-up betting rounds) it becomes more interesting and probably almost stud-ish.
Tight hand selection is obvious: Any trips, any pairs (ideally with the 3d card suited to one of the pair), three to a flush, three to a straight w/o gaps.
The pleasure of beating Aces' Full with four deuces (just one of them on the board) is incalculable - but unfair, I know.
I 'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[BGinGA]

5-card Scrotum8. Best.Game.Ever. Pot-limit, fixed-limit, no-limit, doesn't matter. All great variants.

But of the games you don't have to explain to people, 7-card Stud8 (Hi/Lo) is a great game. And if you dislike limit games for some strange reason, try Pot-Limit Mississippi Stud8.

 

[v1pe]

PLO is my favorite, but I also like Big O and PLO8. Stud8 is also fun. I'm interested in trying some more of the draw games like 2-7, A-5, and the badacey/baduecy variants. I also really want to try razzduecy and razzdugi.

I'm sort of enjoying SOHE but often times I don't really know how to navigate the initial card split.

 

[upNdown]

I like Courchevel pot limit hi/lo
It's essentially PLO8 but you get 5 hole cards and the first card of the flop is exposed before the first round of betting.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Traditionally, playing with 3 hole cards, with all 3, down to 2 of them useable (never just one or none) was the norm here.
With 5 board cards, it admittedly produces too high a variance (despite the somewhat limiting factor of not less than 2 hole cards).
With just 3 board cards (still dealt in 3 follow-up betting rounds) it becomes more interesting and probably almost stud-ish.
Tight hand selection is obvious: Any trips, any pairs (ideally with the 3d card suited to one of the pair), three to a flush, three to a straight w/o gaps.
The pleasure of beating Aces' Full with four deuces (just one of them on the board) is incalculable - but unfair, I know.
I 'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Never played this, but it sounds like a very slight variation on Super Hold'em. Same deal, but you can play 0, 1, 2, or 3 hole cards.

What I've found playing SHE is that it's an action killer. The possible hand values are too wide-open for people to feel very confident about their hands, so there are few raising wars outside of very unusual match-ups, like aces full versus quads and such. It does better as an add-on game, as it is in SHESHE (5 hole cards, split into a HE and SHE hand preflop, best HE and SHE hand split the pot) and SOSHE (same thing but with 7 cards split into an Omaha hand and a SHE hand).

 

[Jimulacrum]

5-card Scrotum8. Best.Game.Ever. Pot-limit, fixed-limit, no-limit, doesn't matter. All great variants.

Scrotum doesn't get much play in my crowd, but I'd love to get a few orbits of Scrotum 8 in. Seems like a great action game.

But of the games you don't have to explain to people, 7-card Stud8 (Hi/Lo) is a great game. And if you dislike limit games for some strange reason, try Pot-Limit Mississippi Stud8.

The only difference with Mississippi Stud 8 is that fourth and fifth street come out at the same time to cut out a betting round, right? I've played that and liked it a lot. I love Stud 8, limit or otherwise. And IDGAF, I'll play it pot-limit, no-limit or whatever, with or without the combined streets.

 

[Jimulacrum]

PLO is my favorite, but I also like Big O and PLO8. Stud8 is also fun. I'm interested in trying some more of the draw games like 2-7, A-5, and the badacey/baduecy variants. I also really want to try razzduecy and razzdugi.

Draw-type lowball games are making a real comeback in competitive circles. I've played a decent amount of them so far and can see why. They're a lot of fun. Even high Draw games are a blast.

Can't say I'm a fan of Razz, but I might feel differently after a few orbits of one of the circus Razz variants.

I'm sort of enjoying SOHE but often times I don't really know how to navigate the initial card split.

Hand splitting is definitely the most thoughtful decision you have to make in a SOHE hand, and if you ask three different people, you'll get three different opinions about how to do it best. Not only that, but hand selection is very important. Basically every hand you get has some strong-looking features, but that doesn't mean it's a strong or even marginally good hand.

A good SOHE hand should not only have the strengths you know how to identify from Hold'em and Omaha, but also coordination between the two sides. A hand that's only seriously contending for one half of the pot is more of a liability than an asset, y'know?

 

[Jimulacrum]

I like Courchevel pot limit hi/lo
It's essentially PLO8 but you get 5 hole cards and the first card of the flop is exposed before the first round of betting.

Courchevel never gained much traction with my crowd. I liked it in theory until I played a few orbits, but it seemed like a bit of an action-killer after a while.

Seeing that first flop card means that nitty players can sit back and wait to get dealt sets and three to a nut low in their openers, and the actiony players quickly pick up on it and become much less actiony.

 

[BGinGA]

The only difference with Mississippi Stud 8 is that fourth and fifth street come out at the same time to cut out a betting round, right?

Correct, and necessary imo if played pot-limit - otherwise nearly every hand would eventually be for stacks. Playing Stud games has improved my poker game immensely, although I really don't like straight limit Stud. Razz is a great love/hate game. If your persona can't handle bad beats, that's not the game for you.

We've played Razzaho down here a bit, but it's not crowd favorite. I'd like to try it with some more experience Omaha and split-game players.

 

[Jimulacrum]

We've played Razzaho down here a bit, but it's not crowd favorite. I'd like to try it with some more experience Omaha and split-game players.

Razzaho? Never heard of it.

 

[upNdown]

Courchevel never gained much traction with my crowd. I liked it in theory until I played a few orbits, but it seemed like a bit of an action-killer after a while.

Seeing that first flop card means that nitty players can sit back and wait to get dealt sets and three to a nut low in their openers, and the actiony players quickly pick up on it and become much less actiony.

I only played it at the NH meetup last year. Everybody was drinking and nobody cared about the first card.

 

[Jimulacrum]

I only played it at the NH meetup last year. Everybody was drinking and nobody cared about the first card.

That's pretty sweet. I don't believe I was at that table. I remember playing a ton of Double Board Omaha, more than anything else.

 

[glom]

Never played this, but it sounds like a very slight variation on Super Hold'em. Same deal, but you can play 0, 1, 2, or 3 hole cards.

What I've found playing SHE is that it's an action killer. The possible hand values are too wide-open for people to feel very confident about their hands, so there are few raising wars outside of very unusual match-ups, like aces full versus quads and such. It does better as an add-on game, as it is in SHESHE (5 hole cards, split into a HE and SHE hand preflop, best HE and SHE hand split the pot) and SOSHE (same thing but with 7 cards split into an Omaha hand and a SHE hand).

Have you played SHESHE? Simultaneous holdem/super holdem? Brings the action back.

 

[v1pe]

Draw-type lowball games are making a real comeback in competitive circles. I've played a decent amount of them so far and can see why. They're a lot of fun. Even high Draw games are a blast.

Can't say I'm a fan of Razz, but I might feel differently after a few orbits of one of the circus Razz variants.



Hand splitting is definitely the most thoughtful decision you have to make in a SOHE hand, and if you ask three different people, you'll get three different opinions about how to do it best. Not only that, but hand selection is very important. Basically every hand you get has some strong-looking features, but that doesn't mean it's a strong or even marginally good hand.

A good SOHE hand should not only have the strengths you know how to identify from Hold'em and Omaha, but also coordination between the two sides. A hand that's only seriously contending for one half of the pot is more of a liability than an asset, y'know?

Right, exactly. I also feel like sometime hands can play against each other if your HE hand contains outs for your Omaha hand. Seems like it's almost always best to pick a PP for your HE hand but I dunno it also seems like that can't be right haha.

 

[BGinGA]

Razzaho? Never heard of it.

Split-pot Razz/Omaha with a 5-card community board. Dealt like Razz, but a board card gets dealt after 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th street cards are delivered. Betting follows Razz rules, and the pot is split between best 5 card Razz hand (of your seven cards) and the best Omaha hand using two of your three down cards with three of the board cards (like Omaha, but with just 3 hole cards instead of 4). 7th street can change everything, especially if you have a chaser in the hand. Tremendous game for draws. Key is to be drawing to the nuts both ways, which is hard. Making it by 5th street is gold.

It also allows for some normally throwaway Razz hands to be profitable, especially if disguised, so it's less boring than Razz to the casual player. I think you'd like it -- trying to get your head around everything going on is pretty challenging. Like Razz, memory and bluffing are key components, but compounded.

 

[v1pe]

Traditionally, playing with 3 hole cards, with all 3, down to 2 of them useable (never just one or none) was the norm here.
With 5 board cards, it admittedly produces too high a variance (despite the somewhat limiting factor of not less than 2 hole cards).
With just 3 board cards (still dealt in 3 follow-up betting rounds) it becomes more interesting and probably almost stud-ish.
Tight hand selection is obvious: Any trips, any pairs (ideally with the 3d card suited to one of the pair), three to a flush, three to a straight w/o gaps.
The pleasure of beating Aces' Full with four deuces (just one of them on the board) is incalculable - but unfair, I know.
I 'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Never played this, but it sounds like a very slight variation on Super Hold'em. Same deal, but you can play 0, 1, 2, or 3 hole cards.

What I've found playing SHE is that it's an action killer. The possible hand values are too wide-open for people to feel very confident about their hands, so there are few raising wars outside of very unusual match-ups, like aces full versus quads and such. It does better as an add-on game, as it is in SHESHE (5 hole cards, split into a HE and SHE hand preflop, best HE and SHE hand split the pot) and SOSHE (same thing but with 7 cards split into an Omaha hand and a SHE hand).

This sounds more like 3 card Omaha to me.

 

[PlaidDragon]

Legs

A 5-card poker game with ante and a growing pot. The number of total legs needed to win is decided at the start of the game.

An ante for the entire game is decided and each player antes once per full 5-card round. Usually we all ante 10¢ each .

Players start with one hole card and decide in turn to go "in" or not for high hand. Any or all others may "challenge" in turn.

In turn the player who went "in" and every subsequent challenger secretly show each other their card to see whose is higher. The players keep silent about the results of the hand until the end of the 5-card round.

The first hand is the simplest given the high hand is obviously an ace.

Each player must keep track of his won/or lost challenges throughout every round.

If no one challenges someone who goes in, that player gets a "leg".

Players then get a 2nd card and may go "in" just as the prior hand except this time the lowest hand is what wins. Unchallenged players, again, get a leg. Aces can be low, so the best hand this time is A,2.

The same thing happens on 3, 4 and 5 cards with 3 & 5 being for high valued hands and 4 cards being another low hand.

The player who may opt to go "in" first in a hand rotates forward so it's not always the same player acting first. The deal also rotates once per 5-card round.

Once challenges have completed after the 5th hand, players who won challenges are paid the current pot value by the other player involved in the challenge(s). Challenges that result in a tie obviously have no effect.

Players ante again at the start of each new round, so challenges become progressively more expensive.

Play continues until any player reaches the target amount of "legs". That player then takes the whole of the antes and the game ends.

Other house rules of ours regarding the number of legs per game:

1) The number of legs in any game MUST be odd.
2) Subsequent games in the same overall session must be a higher total of legs than the prior game... thus the first game could go to 5 legs, the next to 7, then 9. etc...

I think the most we've gone is about 15 legs with 7 players. I think the largest pot in that one was like $10.50 towards the end where someone on five cards got challenged with 3 of a kind and lost to two straights and a flush. -$31.50 swing right there.

 

[Coyote]

This sounds more like 3 card Omaha to me.

It's not like Omaha, because 3 hole cards are useable (minimum 2).
As @Jimulacrum has pointed out, it can and mostly will kill action among players who aren't clueless.
Lower variance / more serious variants can be either
-with just 3 board cards, meaning single card flop (maybe the river card being double - not both useable)
-or with dropping the 3d hole card upon seeing the flop and before betting on it, with the remaining 2 hole cards being both obligatory to use.

 

[v1pe]

It's not like Omaha, because 3 hole cards are useable (minimum 2).
As @Jimulacrum has pointed out, it can and mostly will kill action among players who aren't clueless.
Lower variance / more serious variants can be either
-with just 3 board cards, meaning single card flop (maybe the river card being double - not both useable)
-or with dropping the 3d hole card upon seeing the flop and before betting on it, with the remaining 2 hole cards being both obligatory to use.

Ahh, yes I realize I misread your original post.

 

[mashoo]

Love playing badugi.

 

[DRacula]

Archie (triple draw hi/lo)
Short deck
Any variation of PLO

IMO any game that encourages action is good for the longevity of poker. The more variance the better. I’ve been spoiled with playing multiple tables at once online, and I sometimes lack the patience required for live NLHE.

I too love split pot games, nothing better than seeing someone get their money chopped because they played two marginal hi/lo hands.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Love playing badugi.

I'm a big fan of Badugi too. Oddly enough, it's one of the games I enjoy both in fixed- and pot-limit format. Same with 2-7 Triple Draw.

Archie (triple draw hi/lo)
Short deck
Any variation of PLO

IMO any game that encourages action is good for the longevity of poker. The more variance the better. I’ve been spoiled with playing multiple tables at once online, and I sometimes lack the patience required for live NLHE.

I too love split pot games, nothing better than seeing someone get their money chopped because they played two marginal hi/lo hands.

I have not yet played a hand of Archie but am really looking forward to trying it. Seems right up my alley.

Not sure if I'll like short-deck games, but as always, I'm willing to give 'em a try.

Obviously, PLO is nice, and I'm happy to play it, but I do prefer it in a split-pot format of some kind.

 

[bivey]

Like BigO 8 or better. Can play standard O8 limit for hours on end. Best bang for your buck in poker.

Really trying to teach myself PLO.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Like BigO 8 or better. Can play standard O8 limit for hours on end. Best bang for your buck in poker.

I love both Big O and standards Omaha 8. Limit's good (and how I first learned to play O8), but I like pot-limit a lot too.

Really trying to teach myself PLO.

Check out Jeff Hwang's books: Pot-Limit Omaha Poker: The Big Play Strategy, Advanced Pot-Limit Omaha: Small Ball and Short-Handed Play, and Advanced Pot-Limit Omaha Volume II: LAG Play.

 

[pltrgyst]

5-card Scrotum8. Best.Game.Ever. Pot-limit, fixed-limit, no-limit, doesn't matter. All great variants.
But of the games you don't have to explain to people, 7-card Stud8 (Hi/Lo) is a great game....

I'm with BG on Scrotum, because it forces players to grapple with an entirely new set of possibilities relative to other games.

And I do love stud -- 5, 7, hi-lo, six-card optional, anything -- probably because I grew up playing those games, literally. Before I hit my eighth birthday, my enduring goal was to fill that two-pound coffee can with pennies, playing three cent limit, three raises, every Saturday night against my parents and other neighborhood adults.... :