Flipping for noobs (1 Viewer)

[slisk250]

There was a legit post by a few newer members in another thread and asked the question, What is considered a flip? Outside of chipping, a flip has been known as buying anything just to turn a profit. The flipping issue heated up when the chiproom sold the Horseshoe Cleveland chips and one other casino, can't remember the name. Some members gamed the system bought up chips and as soon as they received them started fleecing anyone who would pay. Some star chip GB members did exactly the same thing...many have followed. Yeah I have a list and that got me in some hot water with the man but it was what it was....

Chip Karma is real. Lots of other issues in that thread so I figured I'd do a public service to those who desire all the karma they can get. Some scenarios...

You take time from your gaming life in Vegas to harvest full racks of chips you know people want, then offer them in a sale at market price - not a flip.
You take time from your gaming life in Vegas to harvest full racks of chips you know a member wants then offer them at cost - not a flip and 5***** elite karma gained!
You snatch up every chip you can in a chiproom sale and then sell them to your chipping friends at cost - not a flip and 5***** elite karma gained!
You snatch up everything you can in a chiproom sale then sell or auction them to the community at full market as soon as you receive them - flipper be damned to hell!
You buy up every chip you can in a NAGB effort with many people and then fleece the community ASAP when sales begin - the very worst case of flipping.
You are a chip vet that bought up a bunch of chips in the golden days at 50 cents each, then sell years later at market - not a flip
You jump on a low priced dibs sale and immediately relist them at a nice profit - flipper be damned.

Those are the examples in my head today. People can flip if they want but Chip Karma is very real.

 

[Perthmike]

I've done a couple of those things that you listed as not classified as flipping, and even then I felt a bit dirty lol.

Its a grey area at times, but I think we all know deep down if what we are doing is flipping.

Let's bring back the flipping pitchforks lol

 

[Changster]

In most of these scenarios the time frame was pretty short to be considered a flip (by you at least)... that seems to be the common denominator.

I propose we use 1 year as the definition of flipping for profit or not - inline with the long term capital gains tax rules of the IRS. Less than 1 year, possibly a flip. Over 1 year, never a flip. PCF defined rule.

 

[slisk250]

In most of these scenarios the time frame was pretty short to be considered a flip (by you at least)... that seems to be the common denominator.

I propose we use 1 year as the definition of flipping for profit or not - inline with the long term capital gains tax rules of the IRS. Less than 1 year, possibly a flip. Over 1 year, never a flip. PCF defined rule.

Time really has nothing to do with it. If you are only buying the chips to profit, you are denying those chips to who really wanted them at the time. Waiting a year is immaterial. It is all about intent.

 

[Perthmike]

It's about intent a much as timeframe.

 

[bradiggy]

That all sounds about right to me!

I’m sure a select few around here would disagree on your first Vegas scenario, but I’ve gotten tired of explaining/justifying the efforts generally required to take a hard to get rack out of a casino to people who have never sold a live rack or much of anything on this forum

 

[moose]

You take time from your gaming life in Vegas to harvest full racks of chips you know people want, then offer them in a sale at market price - not a flip.

You are buying at cost and selling at market. Most definitely a flip. Selling at market immediately after when you got them at cost is by the very definition -A FLIP

Harvesting racks of chips at cost and charging a reasonable amount for your time is not a flip. If someone bought those chips from you and then resold them at market - THAT'S A FLIPPER.

 

[72o]

I read the title and thought people were gambling for the right to take home a newcomer.

 

[Forty4]

You are buying at cost and selling at market. Most definitely a flip. Selling at market when you got them at cost is by the very definition -A FLIP

Harvesting racks of chips at cost and charging a reasonable amount for your time is not a flip. If someone bought those chips from you and then resold them at market - THAT'S A FLIPPER.

I know I posted three years ago when the casino opened if anyone wanted any, no takers. Wish I had a mint rack right now. I’ve also seen the same used chips now selling for way over face value. I don’t care about the potential money I missed out on more disappointed that there are not mint chips float around. Of course three years ago RHC were the stepchild nobody cared about, currently all the rage.

 

[slisk250]

You are buying at cost and selling at market. Most definitely a flip. Selling at market immediately after when you got them at cost is by the very definition -A FLIP

Harvesting racks of chips at cost and charging a reasonable amount for your time is not a flip. If someone bought those chips from you and then resold them at market - THAT'S A FLIPPER.

I'll disagree with you on this. After you figure in air/hotel, etc. You could very well argue that some 1's they are now getting 200 a rack for are a bargain.

 

[Forty4]

Certainly is a grey area in my book. On one hand you’ll already be there or were planning on going so discount the airfare and hotel (unless you’re This Guy). Also if it’s a poker room where racks are easily obtainable. Also condition of chips and if you have to sort. But basically with the way I play I’m saving money and having fun. So I wouldn’t charge. Still feel bad that you gave me a tip for going down the street to pick up chips on my way home.

 

[shorticus]

If you want flipping to stop, the simple answer is to allow people to call it out. According to the rules, thread crapping is not allowed so one can not go to a thread and call bullshit. If this were not against the rules, you'd see the market change...quickly!

What that being said, there are a lot of downsides to going this route. It would probably be a bunch of arguing and chaos in the classifieds lol.

 

[Forty4]

If you want flipping to stop, the simple answer is to Stop buying

 

[slisk250]

Certainly is a grey area in my book.

Still feel bad that you gave me a tip for going down the street to pick up chips on my way home.

Yeah I get where you are coming from...but time is an invaluable commodity. Getting the good chips is never easy and time spent bringing them into the community.

Cliffs for the bewildered...maybe 4 years ago Forty4 found chips I wanted in a local craiglist ad or something like that. Made an offer and sent me some mint BCC V1 Mardi Gras for a crazy low price. I think I sent him 70 bucks for the trouble but not sure if I'm telling it correctly...and yes Forty4 has eternal 5***** chip karma.

 

[shorticus]

Also very true! @Forty4

 

[Forty4]

Yeah I get where you are coming from...but time is an invaluable commodity. Getting the good chips is never easy and time spent bringing them into the community.

Cliffs for the bewildered...maybe 4 years ago Forty4 found chips I wanted in a local craiglist ad or something like that. Made an offer and sent me some mint BCC V1 Mardi Gras for a crazy low price. I think I sent him 70 bucks for the trouble but not sure if I'm telling it correctly...and yes Forty4 has eternal 5***** chip karma.

And promptly flipped the “profit” into the Matsui $100 plaques so money stayed in the community

 

[JMC9389]

This. Flipping stops when people stop paying the outrageous prices.

 

[Darson]

My one annoyance are those that troll eBay and buy chips they have absolutely no intention of using but do so because they know they're able to sell them here for more than they paid. If you don't want to use them then just leave them for someone else who does to get the deal.

I'm not referring to those who find obscure selling places and discover chips, only those on the easy to access places like eBay where anyone is just a mouse click away.

 

[detroitdad]

Well put Mike

 

[Racer96]

I thought this was going to be a single table flip tourney thread for noods.

I’m just gonna put my camera away now.

Mike

 

[BarrieJ3]

People can and have argued the super fine points, but I think y’all are generally pretty close on this topic.

Im a little hazier on the harvesting. I get that time is worth money. Totally. But people’s pricing is super varied and seem a bit extreme at times. I personally try and avoid people that want a ton for harvesting, I’d rather go with someone doing it for free and then tipping fat on top. Because if you’re charging me double, you must not be enjoying yourself, and id hate to take away Vegas time (honest). If you’re doing it for freeish, you obviously enjoy it, I don’t mind using your services.

Im prolly in the wrong. Long week with kids, drinks now and all. But I’ve already brought chips to and from US and EU for folks who couldn’t/wouldn’t have otherwise made the deal, and still have more to do. It’s a small hassle, but not huge and provides them a big value. They can tip if they want, but I’m not charging. Community and all.

 

[JFCJ]

chip karma is real.

 

[shorticus]

@BarrieJ3 I'd only consider time and effort if I've asked someone to harvest chips for me. Then I'll tip you accordingly in addition to what we agreed on. However, if someone is going to Vegas and decides on their own that they will harvest chips and post them here for sale, you risk people not wanting to pay for your time and effort. To me, the latter is more of an attempt to make money.

 

[monkeydog]

Imagine the hubris and self righteous delusion that it would take an individual to create a bullshit concept like "Chip Karma" and then to apply a self created list of values that place members into one category or other...especially when a core value of the "Chip Karma" is the performance of gracious acts outside of the view of the general population...no hypocrisy at all.

Seems like the type of BS that could change a forum and create tension in members leading some to stop posting and move away.

I said it before...this place is fucking toxic lately. I had hoped that 2020 would lead to a change but it's the same frigging groups, arguing about the same stupid bullshit endlessly...but now with a bunch a noobs adding their opinion to the popular side in hopes of gaining "Chip Karma".

It looks like it's time to follow Puggy, Jbutler and Bergs and just be done with it.

 

[HobokenNJ]

You jump on a low priced dibs sale and immediately relist them at a nice profit - flipper be damned.
... People can flip if they want but Chip Karma is very real.

My one annoyance are those that troll eBay and buy chips they have absolutely no intention of using but do so because they know they're able to sell them here for more than they paid.

I guess its fine to have a definition of what a "flip" is, but I'm not sure I understand the moral condemnation that comes from meeting the definition of being a flipper. Maybe this is because my budget is smaller for this kind of thing than basically everyone else on the board. *shrug*

In the first example, maybe there is some type of expediency that prompted the seller to offer at a lower price than market and/or wants to sell a larger set than many might find more usable (rather than splitting). The seller could be providing the liquidity the seller needs and/or splitting the set & doing a service for the buyers. In both cases, worthy of earning some type return, in my estimation.

In the second, the seller is definitely doing something of value. They've moved something from eBay to here -- the right audience & taken the risk on buying from that venue. I don't know about others, but I've had much more pleasant experiences here with folks -- every single one of them -- than my standard experience with eBay sellers. Again, a service that seems worth something other than condemnation.

That being said, if you don't your chips flipped, isn't one approach to require someone to give you the right of first refusal at the sales price if they'd like to move the chips within the next 6-12 months? The unscrupulous will not abide by the restriction -- and should be called out for doing so -- I would've expect most folks would respect the request.

In any case, that's how I see and I recognize that others will disagree with me. In my mind, this is a great, great forum -- I hope it continues to be so.

EDIT: Ticket scalping seems fairly analogous. If you dislike that as well, here's someone to make you more upset: https://cdn.mises.org/Defending_the_Undefendable_2018.pdf (pages 83-89).

 

[RowdyRawhide]

This. Flipping stops when people stop paying the outrageous prices.

THIS X 1000.

Problem is most people will list it for what they paid....even if they overpaid.....and if you overpaid then you are part if the problem. Take a look at the classifieds, I think we are seeing a market correction on some chips....sellers are just refusing to acknowledge it. I can name at least 3 examples in the classifieds right now that are listed for what they were selling for 6 mos to a year ago, and arent moving. I think there should be a limit the number of bump allowed per ad over a certain period of time....bottom line if you bump your shit continuously and it aint selling lower the damn price or quit cluttering y front page with your overpriced ad by bumping it every 6 hours. /rant...for now

 

[slisk250]

Imagine the hubris and self righteous delusion that it would take an individual to create a bullshit concept like "Chip Karma" and then to apply a self created list of values that place members into one category or other...especially when a core value of the "Chip Karma" is the performance of gracious acts outside of the view of the general population...no hypocrisy at all.

Seems like the type of BS that could change a forum and create tension in members leading some to stop posting and move away.

I said it before...this place is fucking toxic lately. I had hoped that 2020 would lead to a change but it's the same frigging groups, arguing about the same stupid bullshit endlessly...but now with a bunch a noobs adding their opinion to the popular side in hopes of gaining "Chip Karma".

It looks like it's time to follow Puggy, Jbutler and Bergs and just be done with it.

...blasphemy!

 

[shorticus]

Imagine the hubris and self righteous delusion that it would take an individual to create a bullshit concept like "Chip Karma" and then to apply a self created list of values that place members into one category or other...especially when a core value of the "Chip Karma" is the performance of gracious acts outside of the view of the general population...no hypocrisy at all.

Seems like the type of BS that could change a forum and create tension in members leading some to stop posting and move away.

I said it before...this place is fucking toxic lately. I had hoped that 2020 would lead to a change but it's the same frigging groups, arguing about the same stupid bullshit endlessly...but now with a bunch a noobs adding their opinion to the popular side in hopes of gaining "Chip Karma".

It looks like it's time to follow Puggy, Jbutler and Bergs and just be done with it.

damn bro, sucks you feel that way.

 

[BirdCage]

Seems like the type of BS that could change a forum and create tension in members leading some to stop posting and move away.

As a new PCF member, I'm going to say amen. I almost signed off after reading - again and again and again - that any love for Modiano is off limits.

We're talking poker chips and playing cards - it's not a cult!!!

 

[shorticus]

@RowdyRawhide bro, I look at some ads and you go in there and it's just like
bump

bump

bump

bump

bump

...bruh, nobody interested. I was guilty of this at one point, but you learn over time.