Flopped Set Of Q's - help critique me!!! (1 Viewer)

moojersey

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Hero is a 35 year old caucasian male. I probably look more like 25, or so I'm told. I actually got carded in a bar last week. I consider myself a pretty solid player, but like all players ... I do have tendencies and leaks. I keep re-learning these lessons at a hefty price at the poker table. Playing in a pretty large card room today. MD Live! Some of you probably play here too. It's Saturday afternoon and I'm looking forward to a good session!

I've been on a pretty wicked downswing lately and I have been coolered out of $400 - 600 mostly in large pots in my last few sessions. This has hurt my confidence and I am finding myself doing a lot of second guessing instincts and reads. Getting a little bit too timid when the pot starts to get big multi - way. I never used to be this way. Starting to fear the worst in too many situations.

Today I'm on a mission to log in a win for the good guys!
Plan going in is to play like an uber freaking tight nit, wait for seriously good spots only and trying to stack villains off.
I'm playing tight and everyone knows it. I'm getting a lot of respect on my pre - flop raising and continuation bets from all players except the LAG's.

It's probably 3 hours into the session when I get into an interesting hand with a couple of these villains.

Villain 1: 25 - 30 year old Indian guy. Playing super LAGGY and generally has gotten the better of me. He rarely folds to a raise pre-flop after limping. Money doesn't seem to be much of an issue for him. He's well dressed, wearing gold jewelry, and has a wad of of blue bills ($100's). Probably in the game for about $400 - 500. I'm a little bit annoyed with him as he has called me all the way down to the river with a gut shot twice and binked it both times. He has also binked a 2 outer on the river to make a very sneaky hidden set. He seems to be running hot this session. Did I mention I'm a bit annoyed with him? I've been playing with him since the table started so I have a decent read on him. Playing about $250.

Villain 2: 50 - 60 year old bull dike lady. I know this sounds mean, but that's what she is. She's been with us for the last 30 minutes or so. Likes to talk about hands after they are done. I don't mind this as she is basically telling me how she's playing her cards. She's playing LAG as well today. Raising suited connectors from early position. 3 betting trash pre - flop. She is not doing quite as well as the other villain. She has had to show down a couple A high bluffs on the river. I'm patiently waiting for a good spot to get that stack lol. She's playing about $150. She's down from $300.

Ok so the hand in question. $1 / $2 NLHE

Hero (Button): :qc: :qs: ($550 in front of me, in this game for $400)
Villain 1 (indian guy): UTG +2 ($250)
Villain 2 (bull dike lady): 3 seats after villain 1 ($150)


Villain 1 and Villain 2 will both limp. Maybe pick up 2 more limpers in there somewhere.
When it is Hero's turn I peek down at :qc: :qs: (and loving this hand on the button). I make it $16 to go.
Blinds fold. Villain 1 + Villain 2 will both call the $16.
Others will all fold and we go 3 to the flop.

Flop (Pot $50'ish):

:kh: :qd: :th:

Both villains check. Hero?
 
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Agree mostly - Villains are short stacked after the preflop action, Hero will be hard pressed to fold properly. I am not ever folding vs villain 2 without a gun to my head. Villain 1 has enough of a stack to give hero pause on a bad turn. A heart doesn't inspire as much fear in me as a 4 card straight would, especially an ace or a nine.

Bet pot, call jams, rarely fold on the turn -=- DrStrange
 
Ok thanks for your input guys.
Hero bets $30. Might be too small, I was thinking bet 2/3 pot. I didn't want to lose either villain. I had noticed when I started making bigger bets they would sometimes take me seriously and release.

Both villains call.

Pot = $140

Turn: :ah:

Worst card I can imagine for myself really. Both villains check.

Hero?
 
Check and fold to a jam. Worst card in the deck for you. Ugh.

If it checks through and the board pairs jam, else check fold.
 
If you can learn to fold sets, you'll save tons of money in NLHE (and even more in PLO). This took me a long time. I'd rather eat haggis then fold.
 
If you can learn to fold sets, you'll save tons of money in NLHE (and even more in PLO). This took me a long time. I'd rather eat haggis then fold.

I have yet to ever fold a flopped set lol. This board is super fugly though.
 
Just last night had a :js::ts:

And the board ran :kc::qc::tc: turn :ac: never made it to the river. I folded to a well sized bet. Turns out I had the nuts, since the better showed :ah::9h:

Oop, my board was too wet to continue.

In your hand, I check... Fold to a sizable bet unless the board pairs.
 
Check behind... I can't even begin to see a reason to bet that turn.
 
No matter what happens on the river, Hero should take this hand as a learning experience for when to bet bigger vs smaller. That flop was not ideal for Hero to make a set. (obviously hero is happy to have a set, but there are problems.) If the :ah: wasn't the dagger in the heart we fear, it is 100% sure to be an action killer. Get money in the pot while the getting is good, and don't make the draws cheap.

As everyone else suggested, check the turn.

DrStrange
 
Ok good feedback everyone. The board is pretty scary right now. Hero does check behind, but I think this was a mistake.

Does anyone feel there is a case to fire something here??? In hind sight I think I should fire something like $45 - 55 bucks. Then fold to any aggression.

Remember the Villains in question. 2 hyper LAGtards. Why don't they fire? They are scared.

Honestly OTT I was pretty sure I have them crushed. Remember they have shown down a lot of trash.

Case to fire? Or is that pure spew?

Remember Heroe's image. I always "have it" at showdown.
 
LAGtards aren't calling stations. If Hero bets and they are holding bad cards, it is a fold. If Hero bets and they were trapping, then Hero gets put to the test. This is the essence of reverse implied odds - hero wins less than he loses.

Hero might be wondering why neither LAGtard bet the scare card. LAGs learn they win pots by betting no matter what their cards are. So . . . are both of these guys ready to check/fold or is someone being sneaky?

Does Hero think someone would fold broadway fearing the flush? I'd suspect they might check/call or bet but maybe Hero's villains are a little more timid.

One hand Hero might fold out with a bet is some sort of rotten flush draw - say a villain has :kc: :5h:. Don't laugh, my LAGtards absolutely could hold a hand like that.

The risk is higher than the rewards, a free card for everyone. -=- DrStrange
 
Ok good feedback everyone. The board is pretty scary right now. Hero does check behind, but I think this was a mistake.

Does anyone feel there is a case to fire something here??? In hind sight I think I should fire something like $45 - 55 bucks. Then fold to any aggression.

Remember the Villains in question. 2 hyper LAGtards. Why don't they fire? They are scared.

Honestly OTT I was pretty sure I have them crushed. Remember they have shown down a lot of trash.

Case to fire? Or is that pure spew?

Remember Heroe's image. I always "have it" at showdown.
I think a check behind is ABSOLUTELY the right play here. A paired board is Yahtzee and maybe a payoff from a yutz who just tried to trap you with their straight. Betting out just plays into that yutz's hands and their are two players who can have it.
 
Basically the worst card in the deck, so easy check back on the turn imo.

Why would you bet the turn? Both villains will probably fold out most of their hands that you beat. Considering the board texture and your image the two villains will almost never call with a hand you beat here, but will never fold a straight or a flush. Just check back and probably fold the river unimproved if they bet into you. If they check again on the river you might win the pot, but I don't see how we can valuebet river even then. If they bet into you I guess we just fold. Too easy for at least one of them to have you beat here.
 
Ok interesting feedback. I'm going to give you all the river now. Like I said, I felt I must continue solid TAG play and check back OTT.

I am probably being result oriented thinking I should fire to fold out their floats and air type of hands.

River: :jd:

Final board is:

:kh: :qd: :th: :ah: :jd:

Both Villains check. Hero?
 
Check. Split it.

No ones folding a flush and I highly doubt any real LAG is folding a board straight. So there's no reason to bet IMO.
 
Easy check. It's doubtful you are getting both of them to fold even to a pot sized bet so how much is that extra $23 to chop two ways instead of three worth to you? You're handing either of them with hearts free money and opens up the possibility of a shove whether they have hearts or not.
 
Chk river. Any decent flush would have bet the turn. Any small flush will chk/call river so there no value in trying to rep a big hand.
 
Ok so hand conclusion ... Pretty much what you expect.

Hero checks river, but at showdown can't help but feel a bet on the turn wins this pot.

It is a 3 way Broadway chop. All players play the board.

Showdown:

Villain 1: :ac: :7d:

Villain 2: :8c: :9c:
 
They were both real light there. Good candidates to keep firing at multiple times, just not on that turn.
 
Sure, a bet on the turn wins THAT pot...but it still feels like a losing play in the meta (only makes sense playing the result.) As bergs and several others were stating, against one maybe there's a turn bet or river bet in the arsenal. BUT against two villians, be happy with the chop.
 
Considering these guys are LAGs as you have said, they will check raise on the turn as a bluff a decent amount. The turn hit such a big portion of both the players range, and if they are good LAG players they will force you to lay down your hand pretty often,even if they do not have a better hand. There is a posibility that you loose the pot if you bet a weak-ish amount on the turn and they raise. You have to take this in to consideration as well.

The result is of course unfortunate, but I think you played the hand well.
 

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