Hand at a local card room (1 Viewer)

[MrCatPants]

Usually like to settle into new games with new players by playing passive and observing for an orbit or two. But sometimes you cant.

Second hand, I'm in small blind at a 1/3 table, so no reads on the players. One of the MPs opens to 12 (a low open at this table I would later find out), cut off raises to 30, button calls, and I look down at AA. So I 4-bet to 100, and both original raisers call.

River comes out rainbow A 10 3. Action is on me. Do you bet here, or check hoping for action given the multiple 4bet calls?

 

[Mojo1312]

Stack sizes would be helpful. Bet $100.

 

[Beakertwang]

Raise whatever you want. You know you’re getting called down by the guy with KQo who’ll catch his J on the river.

 

[MrCatPants]

Stack sizes would be helpful. Bet $100.

People are sitting on around 200 to 400 more.

 

[WedgeRock]

 

[BGinGA]

Last thing I'm doing on this board with top set is giving a free card, or correct or better odds to players with a draw. Specific stack sizes here for all three players are important, but given the generalities presented, I'm jamming (which would appear to be a 2/3 to over-pot bet).

300 in hand is better than your stack lost in a bush.

 

[DoubleEagle]

Like BG said, shove.

 

[DrStrange]

Hero knows nothing about the villains and they know nothing about him/her. Stack sizes are essential, especially Hero's stack size. The pot is ~$300. It makes all the difference if Hero has $400+ vs $200. My best guess is Hero bought in for $300 (100bb) and is playing roughly that much at the start of the hand.

I think all-in is the best choice. Maybe hero gets looked up by a non-believer. The flop is bone dry though. Hard to imagine Hero getting many calls.

I don't find much fault with a greedy trap check either. Trapping adds some risk but offers greater potential value. I am fine with giving the back door draws a free card. But a broadway card could be a problem.

Last choice, but not that bad is a "stupid bet" - $100 or less depending on stack sizing. The key to this working is Hero is an unknown and might be exploited.

If hero knew more about the table, I'd be more inclined to go with a fancy play. This board is "safe", Hero's hand is a monster, a slow play works out well more often than it doesn't.

DrStrange

 

[gopherblue]

It’s your second hand. No one has a read on you and a jam will look one of two ways: (a) you flopped top set or (2) you’re c-betting a bluff and maybe you’re a maniac gabooling it up for “table image” since you’re new to the table. But to most folks it will be the latter.

You must must must must MUST jam.

 

[Frogzilla]

I’m checking top set here since we can easily get it all in with two bets later. If it checks through we can start betting on turn. That board is bone dry, no need to rush.

 

[colter ripton]

I'd probably check it

 

[legend672]

Chances of getting a call if you shove are pretty slim. Check

 

[Highli99]

Bet $50 and really throw them off. I hope you pulled this one. Hell of hand to start a session. If you win $900ish I hope you rack up and leave. That would be hysterical.

 

[Mojo1312]

Bet $50 and really throw them off. I hope you pulled this one. Hell of hand to start a session. If you win $900ish I hope you rack up and leave. That would be hysterical.

Every once and a while I will read a post that warrants a dislike button.

 

[Highli99]

Every once and a while I will read a post that warrants a dislike button.

I’m trying to have fun...the hand sorta plays itself. Pretty obvious a shove is coming so I wanted to suggest something original.

 

[Mojo1312]

I’m trying to have fun...the hand sorta plays itself. Pretty obvious a shove is coming so I wanted to suggest something original.

What makes you certain a shove is coming?

 

[Highli99]

P*s history with @MrCatPants

 

[Mojo1312]

I can't tell. Is that strawberry jam?

 

[MrCatPants]

P*s history with @MrCatPants

Lol on that one.

 

[MrCatPants]

Bet $50 and really throw them off. I hope you pulled this one. Hell of hand to start a session. If you win $900ish I hope you rack up and leave. That would be hysterical.

Granted, I was in "haven't even put my phone in my cupholder" level of acclimated to the game, but this (betting $50 to try to add confusion) is what I did for the very reason you state. Got two folds anyway. But in thinking about the hand, wasn't sure what the "right" play would have been here given the super dry board with multiple 4bet callers and what their hand ranges must have been.

 

[Jimulacrum]

You're either getting action from 33, TT, or an unlikely AK/AQ—plus maybe a slim chance of a KK who can't let go—or not at all.

But you could also have some Broadway-type cards out there who could turn a free straight, which would be a disaster when the pot is so large already. Free card is a bad idea. Give 'em the preserves.

If the board were a little drier, like a 9 instead of that T, you'd be so immune to someone catching up that you could check and hope to trap someone for his remaining stack.

 

[BRMLOL]

FWIW, I would have sized up the 4bet pre to around 150-170ish.

As played, jam it in. Sure more often than not you will scoop the pot right then and there, but the times you get called you are taking stacks.

What hand would you be checking on this flop that you are 4betting, KK?

 

[upNdown]

If the board were a little drier, like a 9 instead of that T, you'd be so immune to someone catching up that you could check and hope to trap someone for his remaining stack.

Right? People have called this board bone dry and super dry and I don't quite agree. A board with two broadway cards, involving two preflop raising opponents, isn't THAT dry, in my opinion. All in.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Right? People have called this board bone dry and super dry and I don't quite agree. A board with two broadway cards, involving two preflop raising opponents, isn't THAT dry, in my opinion. All in.

Yeah, any time two or more Broadway cards are on the board, the chances that someone hit two pair or a draw go way up. In this case, two pair is extremely unlikely, but KQ, KJ, and QJ are all quite possible.

I'd expect pocket pairs most of the time, but if we're talking about two players who will call off $100 in the clear shove-or-fold preflop spot, Broadway cards are well in the realm of possibility. Wouldn't even be so surprised to see an oddball suited connector or one-gapper, really. Some folks will go out of their way to play a big pot just because it's big, and we have no reads on this group.

 

[Frogzilla]

You got to remember that you have most of the Aces. That makes it pretty tough for anyone else to catch a piece of the flop they feel good about.

Let me break down what your opponent can have, and see what lines are most effective. From a GTO perspective it doesn’t hurt to have a rare strong check, so putting top set in our check range should increase value in the rest of our strategy too.

Or : stacks are going in regardless of what you do on flop, just because of how shallow folks are. Same EV check or bet.

- : these guys are scared of the ace in a 3-way, 4-bet pot. It’s fair to assume they fold to a flop bet. They have almost no equity against you, but may turn some draws or sets which you can stack. Or bluff into you if they are bad. A check is the EV winner.

Ax: This will be more likely to call you now vs later I think, especially and . I will concede betting could be slightly higher EV...but there are run outs where you will get more value out of checking flop.

Non-Ace broadway cards: they have gutshots or 2nd pair. They know they are behind, and also are going to fold a lot with lack of implied odds. The same runouts for this range that turn straights also pick up 2 pair, etc that now can call you down. You also have lots of boat outs. This is a close spot, clearly lower variance to bet, but checking I think is marginally higher EV, especially if they are capable of bluffing their gutshots.

Suited connectors: they can turn backdoor draw where they will bluff or call down unprofitably (low implied odds), and are always folding flop. Check is EV+.

- : folding flop but can turn a set that has no equity against you. Check is EV+.

Just because of how much you block the Ax hands, check wins out on both their ranges. Check your top sets when the board is dry.

 

[Steve Birrer]

I don't like a check post flop.
1. With that board its not likely that one of the original callers will bet. To me they only bet here if they held or . Its very doubtful that they called the $100 preflop bet with or , although perhaps if they were suited. If they flopped a set then they are likely calling a shove anyway so no harm in betting your top set.
2. If you check then they get a free card to see if they connect. So what happens when the turn comes? Here's how I see it. Its a dry turn. So if you bet then they are in the same situation as postflop. They are likely folding unless they also have a set. So checking post flop earned you nothing but increased risk. So to play this line out you check again and after the river its the same scenario except they now have gotten two free cards and now flushes could be in play.
3. The other scenario is you check the flop and its checked around. But the turn is a trouble broadway card. Now what? Bet out? Check/call? Check/fold to a bet?

 

[Frogzilla]

I don't like a check post flop.
1. With that board its not likely that one of the original callers will bet.

People bluff

2. If you check then they get a free card to see if they connect. So what happens when the turn comes? Here's how I see it. Its a dry turn. So if you bet then they are in the same situation as postflop. They are likely folding unless they also have a set

A dry turn is pretty bad, in that we pick up no EV. The turn trap math on a total brick is not as clear, so it may be better to check or jam, honestly I don’t know. You’re not worse off checking flop though.
Notice though, 3 out of 4 turn suits bring a backdoor flush draw and even the bricks might bring a set to an opponent.

3. The other scenario is you check the flop and its checked around. But the turn is a trouble broadway card. Now what? Bet out? Check/call? Check/fold to a bet?

Do not fold your aces on the turn. I’d probably lead bet any broadway as those are great turns for our range, so I guess I’m not there often, but if you choose to check turn and get jammed on it’s a clear call. You will get stacked by a turned straight every now and then, and this is how your flop trap increases variance which I’ve conceded.

If for whatever reason you checked a broadway through on the turn, and the river brings 4-to-a-straight, then and only then would I fold my aces.[/QUOTE]

 

[SkywayParkFR]

You are in sb so check let them give a try... Check/raise all in !

 

[MrCatPants]

On the bluff comment...I was doubting anyone would bluff at that board. With 3 players after a four bet, SOMEONE has got to have at least an ace with a strong kicker. My though if I had checked was that only sets, AK, or a wild A10 would be willing to bet. And odds were with three aces already accounted for, another ace out there was unlikely. So likely was against another premium pair and a suited Broadway which may have been AK. In retrospect probably was not AK because I imagine they would have at least called my 50.