Has ACR Turned into Ignition (1 Viewer)

[boltonguy]

I just cant understand this hand - anyone have any thoughts?

Hero RFI KTs. SB calls.

Dream flop and SB leads. Event with a set, the K hits my range so I think he should X 100% here.
In any case, often leads are weak so Hero raises to 3x. V calls.

Turn is a brick and V bets 3/4 pot. Now I should fold here to this size and aggression but I have the initiative having just raised. The whole thing smells fishy. I call.

The river is an A and V X. For some reason I decide to X behind and V scoops. What the hell was he doing in this hand? Unreal?

 

[upNdown]

Listen, I’m a low stakes, low strategy guy, but that probably represents the majority of poker players out there, so, know your enemy, or whatever:

1. You don’t think he should have folded A5 pre out of the small, to your 2.2x raise, do you? Because 2.2 seems tiny and I don’t know anybody who’s folding there.

2. You think he should check the turn, because you think the flop was better for your range. But the majority of players aren’t thinking in terms of ranges like that. He’s thinking he’s got an over card to the board, back door flush and back door straight, so he bet calls. It’s probably bad, but it’s certainly not crazy.

3. By the turn he’s looking at 11 outs.

I’m just not sure where it is you think he was out of line for being in that hand.

 

[boltonguy]

1. That is a solid fold pre in the SB.
2. He should check the turn because he donked flop and I raised. I gained the initiative when raising and generally you X to the player who had the initiative on the prior street. But what the heck was that flop donk bet??!!
3. Yes of course and 11 outs generally means he’s behind and has a 22% chance of improving to the winner with one card to come. That’s 78% to lose and 22% to win or about 3.5:1 which are not great odds. He gives himself poor odds with his bet - I raised flop, does he really think he has fold equity here? His bet was a semi-bluff which isn’t a great idea if you don’t have much or any fold equity

Plus he really doesn’t have a flush draw with only one diamond. Typically a flush draw is two suited hole cards and two of the same suit on the board for a front door draw and one suited card (with two cards to come) for a back door draw.

I think he was out of line from start to finish in that hand. He’s just lucky he hit the A on the river.

 

[sharik224]

im certain you're putting more thought into his play than you did.

 

[davislane]

It's a nonsense hand from a fish. nothing to see here.

I personally would have jammed the turn. You cant be drawing dead so your cards are live. Sometimes you have to live a little.

 

[perfectjawnz]

yeah just a fish doing fish things, hopefully he didn't leave right after so you can just keep taking his money

1. You don’t think he should have folded A5 pre out of the small, to your 2.2x raise, do you? Because 2.2 seems tiny and I don’t know anybody who’s folding there.

I’m just not sure where it is you think he was out of line for being in that hand.

A5o should be a pure fold to a 2.2bb open from the CO, especially in high rake games (also assuming the BB isn't brain dead and is adjusting their squeezing frequency to SB calling range.)

It's a nonsense hand from a fish. nothing to see here.

I personally would have jammed the turn. You cant be drawing dead so your cards are live. Sometimes you have to live a little.

jamming the turn for 96bb into 21bb? they're playing 120bb eff here, should definitely not be jamming, what calls that you're ahead of/ have good equity against? Maybe A3dd if V is a mega whale?

 

[davislane]

yeah just a fish doing fish things, hopefully he didn't leave right after so you can just keep taking

jamming the turn for 96bb into 21bb? they're playing 120bb eff here, should definitely not be jamming, what calls that you're ahead of/ have good equity against? Maybe A3dd if V is a mega whale?

you are trying to play optimally against fish. these arent the stakes to be playing GTO. The best part of NLH is being able to rip it in. It's the only thing I miss about the game. I mainly play PLO these days so ripping it in isn't always possible. Having said that, sometimes you need to be able to balance your shoves with strong holding and weak holdings otherwise you are leaving money on the table from bluffs that get through and when you get called by weaker holdings.

 

[perfectjawnz]

you are trying to play optimally against fish. these arent the stakes to be playing GTO. The best part of NLH is being able to rip it in. It's the only thing I miss about the game. I mainly play PLO these days so ripping it in isn't always possible. Having said that, sometimes you need to be able to balance your shoves with strong holding and weak holdings otherwise you are leaving money on the table from bluffs that get through and when you get called by weaker holdings.

Let me ask you this then- why are you betting? To get better hands to fold? or to get worse hands to call?

 

[davislane]

Let me ask you this then- why are you betting? To get better hands to fold? or to get worse hands to call?

I'm playing to be unpredictable. If you cant occasionally shove turns with strong and weak holdings you will become predictable. Hence why I don't play Holdem regularly anymore. Everyone is slowly turning into robots trying to play "perfectly".

You do you. I'll do me..... and that's play PLO

 

[Legend5555]

And now you see why I have an 11bb/100 win rate over 12k hands at 10nl blitz.

 

[Eriks]

He’s obviously just clicking buttons.

 

[Zajac]

makes no sense...I guess he was bored and was planning on stealing at the river but made a hand with showdown value at the end.

 

[grebe]

Has ACR Turned into Ignition​

-one has HUDs
-one is anonymous

What other difference would you say there is?

 

[Legend5555]

Has ACR Turned into Ignition​

-one has HUDs
-one is anonymous

What other difference would you say there is?

ACR has Rakeback.

 

[Legend5555]

 

[perfectjawnz]

I'm playing to be unpredictable. If you cant occasionally shove turns with strong and weak holdings you will become predictable. Hence why I don't play Holdem regularly anymore. Everyone is slowly turning into robots trying to play "perfectly".

You do you. I'll do me..... and that's play PLO

what strong hand do you shove with here? you're just missing out on value if you shove with KK here, and you're just value owning yourself if you shove with OPs hand. But sure man, just "you do you" when we're talking about playing hands in a strategy thread.

Playing GTO does not make you predictable if you are doing it correctly. You will get sucked out on by random fish with stupid hands. But in the long run, it's much better than just doing whatever you want to be "unpredictable".

 

[Legend5555]

what strong hand do you shove with here? you're just missing out on value if you shove with KK here, and you're just value owning yourself if you shove with OPs hand. But sure man, just "you do you" when we're talking about playing hands in a strategy thread.

Playing GTO does not make you predictable if you are doing it correctly. You will get sucked out on by random fish with stupid hands. But in the long run, it's much better than just doing whatever you want to be "unpredictable".

But GTO is also not the most +EV strat against a bad pool of players. It's a good baseline, and if you can follow it well enough, you will win. But you can win bigger against the low stakes players by making exploitative plays. The amount of hands they need on you to effective combat you is very high. And due to the multiway nature of 6 max compared to something like heads up, GTO is not always preferred.

Doug had a good podcast about this recently.

But again, knowing GTO is still important and useful.

 

[perfectjawnz]

But GTO is also not the most +EV strat against a bad pool of players. It's a good baseline, and if you can follow it well enough, you will win. But you can win bigger against the low stakes players by making exploitative plays. The amount of hands they need on you to effective combat you is very high. And due to the multiway nature of 6 max compared to something like heads up, GTO is not always preferred.

Doug had a good podcast about this recently.

But again, knowing GTO is still important and useful.

Right, but in what way is shoving here +EV? I think the shove is probably a breakeven play at 100bb (or short stacked). But not 120bb deep where you're shoving almost 2x pot.

What hands do you think the general pool of fish is taking this line with?

 

[Legend5555]

Right, but in what way is shoving here +EV? I think the shove is probably a breakeven play at 100bb (or short stacked). But not 120bb deep where you're shoving almost 2x pot.

What hands do you think the general pool of fish is taking this line with?

I wasn't speaking about this hand specifically.

 

[davislane]

when we're talking about playing hands in a strategy thread

this isnt a strategy thread. this is another one of @boltonguy 's bad beat stories.

Still learning how to play and trying to beat 2NL online hah

for someone who claims they are trying to beat 2NL you sure have strong opinions on how to beat fish at microstakes.

Adjustments are always needed for what ever stakes you are playing. So at these stakes against this playing field all this analysis is stuff is a little circle jerky.

 

[perfectjawnz]

this isnt a strategy thread. this is another one of @boltonguy 's bad beat stories.


for someone who claims they are trying to beat 2NL you sure have strong opinions on how to beat fish at microstakes.

Adjustments are always needed for what ever stakes you are playing. So at these stakes against this playing field all this analysis is stuff is a little circle jerky.

It's in the strategy thread section, I'm going to treat it as such and discuss the hands to my best abilities. I still have yet to see why you think shoving is here and am simply debating what the best play is. And because I posted I was trying to beat 2NL that means my opinions are not valuable here? I am currently beating 5NL 26.41bb/100 but over a tiny sample of 6500 hands, so I think I'm a winning player but do not have the hand to back it up yet.

If I am not welcome here because I am a new and learning player, I will just not post in this section any more.

 

[boltonguy]

It's in the strategy thread section, I'm going to treat it as such and discuss the hands to my best abilities. I still have yet to see why you think shoving is here and am simply debating what the best play is. And because I posted I was trying to beat 2NL that means my opinions are not valuable here? I am currently beating 5NL 26.41bb/100 but over a tiny sample of 6500 hands, so I think I'm a winning player but do not have the hand to back it up yet.

If I am not welcome here because I am a new and learning player, I will just not post in this section any more.

You are welcome here - ignore the grouchy trolls!

 

[davislane]

It's in the strategy thread section, I'm going to treat it as such and discuss the hands to my best abilities. I still have yet to see why you think shoving is here and am simply debating what the best play is. And because I posted I was trying to beat 2NL that means my opinions are not valuable here? I am currently beating 5NL 26.41bb/100 but over a tiny sample of 6500 hands, so I think I'm a winning player but do not have the hand to back it up yet.

If I am not welcome here because I am a new and learning player, I will just not post in this section any more.

You are welcome here - ignore the grouchy trolls!

listen to that guy.

i just prefer when @boltonguy posts interesting hands with actual decision making required and a spot to learn from.

this is a nothing hand to complain about a fish / bad beat of sorts.

bolton knows the math and how to use the sims and doesnt need feedback in this spot, hence my comment to jam the turn.

 

[CrazyEddie]

Should be complimenting @boltonguy for his psychic checkback on the river after getting sucked out on.