Has anyone successfully lowered the stakes in a cash game? (5 Viewers)

[iLogik]

From my personal experience:
You raise the stakes players get tighter…
You lower the stakes players become looser…
But try lowering the stakes and see how it works out

 

[Tonystark137]

@TheYeti

Just raised my home game stakes up to 25c/25c from 5c/10c. (Match half of biggest stack) Feedback so far is everyone like how it played.

Biggest loser of the night : probably ~$150? Biggest Winner of the night: $170?

Normal raise preflop toward the beginning of the night was 75c preflop, and lots of callers.

The preflop raise moved up to $1.75~$3 after 2hrs or so, probably cause the stacks were bigger and the fact the 75c raise wasn't doing much. This bigger preflop raise resulted in usually 3-4 players to the flop. A 3 bet pot typically resulted to 2-3 players to the flop.

Personally, I definitely played a little tighter , folded a lot of and chose my spots better.

 

[TheYeti]

@TheYeti

Just raised my home game stakes up to 25c/25c from 5c/10c. (Match half of biggest stack) Feedback so far is everyone like how it played.

Biggest loser of the night : probably ~$150? Biggest Winner of the night: $170?

Normal raise preflop toward the beginning of the night was 75c preflop, and lots of callers.

The preflop raise moved up to $1.75~$3 after 2hrs or so, probably cause the stacks were bigger and the fact the 75c raise wasn't doing much. This bigger preflop raise resulted in usually 3-4 players to the flop. A 3 bet pot typically resulted to 2-3 players to the flop.

Personally, I definitely played a little tighter , folded a lot of and chose my spots better.

Hmmm....a 2.5x increase in BB. Wonder what would happen if I went from .25/.50 to 1/2? Going up to .50/1 might be a better increase....just not sure at this point. Most of my regs probably wouldn't balk at 1/2 $200 max, but I don't want anyone regularly losing a mortgage payment either.

 

[Tonystark137]

Hmmm....a 2.5x increase in BB. Wonder what would happen if I went from .25/.50 to 1/2? Going up to .50/1 might be a better increase....just not sure at this point. Most of my regs probably wouldn't balk at 1/2 $200 max, but I don't want anyone regularly losing a mortgage payment either.

Yeah the 25c/25c did play a bit weird, it essentially played like a 25/50c ; but I was/am trying to keep it at a nice bar tab/dinner level.

 

[Highli99]

Try switching the game to PLO?

 

[JustinInMN]

The majority of my group are pretty well rolled, typically bringing 3-4 buy ins with them. I have a couple of less frequent players who always buy in for less than max and are out after 1 or 2 bullets.

I really do not know if the stakes were raised how my group would adjust, I guess there's only one way to really find out.

To me, the fact you have players leaving after 1-2 bullets tells me your stakes are as high as they should be if not too high as is. I would not at all consider raising the blinds based on this information. My personal opinion is players should be willing to go 2-3 bullets in a cash game to ensure it lasts for a healthy length of time. (Hello out-of-context thread.)

That said, this also further cements my belief that the flexible cap is the cause of the issues you have. When you think about it, if the cap starts at 200BB, but grows to like 300 or 400 in the course of a night, a player with 3 buy ins of 200BB now suddenly has less than 2 buy-ins.

There are probably a lot of levers you could pull, but I wouldn't pull too many at a time. I really think you just keep the cap firm at 200BB next session and see how it plays out.

 

[louBdub]

@TheYeti

I personally decided to host diff levels of cash game and a rotating tournament.

This way players can pick their risk level and income specific games. 5c/10c all the way to a $400 minimum $1/$2.

I say you try 50c/$1 or a $1/$2 and see how it plays. Your group seems like they don’t mind dumping $10 and folding until they hit a flop…. Make it hurt, and they’ll stop gambling and start playing poker.

 

[TheYeti]

To me, the fact you have players leaving after 1-2 bullets tells me your stakes are as high as they should be if not too high as is. I would not at all consider raising the blinds based on this information. My personal opinion is players should be willing to go 2-3 bullets in a cash game to ensure it lasts for a healthy length of time. (Hello out-of-context thread.)

That said, this also further cements my belief that the flexible cap is the cause of the issues you have. When you think about it, if the cap starts at 200BB, but grows to like 300 or 400 in the course of a night, a player with 3 buy ins of 200BB now suddenly has less than 2 buy-ins.

There are probably a lot of levers you could pull, but I wouldn't pull too many at a time. I really think you just keep the cap firm at 200BB next session and see how it plays out.

The players who leave after 1-2 bullets play very rarely, all of my regs bring at least 3 bullets....one guy always brings 10(!), but he's never used more than 3-4, and rarely needs 2.

Concerning the "Half the Big Stack" rebuys, it doesn't even come into play that often, and when it does there are only really 3 of us that take advantage of it; myself, my co-host, and a reg that's been coming (off & on) for close to 20 years. Even then, it's usually 1-2 rebuys and that's it.

Thanks for all the advice, it is very much appreciated!

 

[JustinInMN]

Concerning the "Half the Big Stack" rebuys, it doesn't even come into play that often, and when it does there are only really 3 of us that take advantage of it; myself, my co-host, and a reg that's been coming (off & on) for close to 20 years. Even then, it's usually 1-2 rebuys and that's it.

Understood, and the fact it doesn't come in often is the reason I think it's superior to full match the stack.

That said, it's a small snowball that grows quickly, once the cap has changed, the more players that take advantage, the more likely there will be two or more players that get into a big pot that someone wins and then and sets a new cap. And then a number of players will want add-ons and it's quite the cycle.

My best guess is that's what happened in the original post that could cause a $1000 loss. It probably just happened in a few unlucky spots that were MUCH larger than usual.

 

[TheYeti]

My best guess is that's what happened in the original post that could cause a $1000 loss. It probably just happened in a few unlucky spots that were MUCH larger than usual.

I was the one who lost almost $1000 and it was indeed due to 3 unlucky spots. Got coolered twice (quads over full house, straight flush over full house), went on tilt and donked off $250 more on a failed (but almost successful) 7/2 bluff.

 

[JustinInMN]

I was the one who lost almost $1000 and it was indeed due to 3 unlucky spots. Got coolered twice (quads over full house, straight flush over full house), went on tilt and donked off $250 more on a failed (but almost successful) 7/2 bluff.

And in a $200 hand cap game, it's very unlikely you find yourself in a spot where you would have a pot big enough to justify a $250 bluff . I would guess the other spots were probably around 2x as big is they might normally be. You probably would have lost a still staggering $300-400 or so which is still a lot, but a far cry from $1000+

 

[Dbxela]

You just need to normalize buying in shorter - if some players like big stacks that's fine, if some players don't then buy $50 and leave if it gets too much.

Big bets and raises over small blinds is a big leak, a shorter stack would have a big advantage, it could easily catch on.

 

[QuadNines]

Late to the thread - but we have a similar group of friends- and we don’t want it to turn into a bloodbath - but do want to encourage good poker rather than buy-in bullying etc.

We play every Thursday. $40 buy in. And up to $40 rebuys. 25c / 50c - with a $4 max raise any time the pot is less than $4.00 (usually only pre flop) - then pot limit any time it’s over $4.00

No one loses $250 and it’s rare anyone wins $200

We play a lot of pots of $40 to $80 with the largest I recall being $200 or so.

We are contemplating going to $50 buy ins and $5 max (instead of $4) but not currently necessary. We have some guys who love to gamble for stacks - and some guys who play really tight - and more than not, the looser guys get hammered. Lol

Not a game for everyone - but works for our group to keep things balanced between social and decent poker.

 

[ThrowBack]

Don’t do match the stack

$100 buy in, and $100 rebuy

 

[SteveEH]

IMO, match the full or match half the stack isn't friendly (or even needed as your regs will have a chance to win again in the next session). If 1 or 2 of the regs can't live without it, you don't need to do it, and it limits big losses to those guys only.

I'd also screen new players better by asking them how much they're willing to lose in a session. If your regs are at $200-$300, the new players should be within that range.

 

[Old State]

Leave the $100 max, get rid of the match the stack type rebuy option. Leave all rebuys at $100 max and the game will be fine. Blinds don’t matter, stacks do. As the stacks get bigger, so do the bets. If they don’t then any 2 cards are playable because the implied odds are worth it.

Also ban straddles if you have them now. It artificially inflates the size of the game.

This is the most perfect answer. Straddles are stupid and matching stacks is asking for trouble.

I’ve never had either and no one in 20 years has complained.

 

[ekricket]

I'd also screen new players better by asking them how much they're willing to lose in a session. If your regs are at $200-$300, the new players should be within that range.

Me: “Hey fellow coworker, having a poker game this weekend, want to play”
Coworker: “sure! Haven’t played in years!”
Me: “great!” “How much money do you think you will lose?”
Coworker: . *wonders what kind of person you are*

This approach isn’t going to get you players.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

Me: “Hey fellow coworker, having a poker game this weekend, want to play”
Coworker: “sure! Haven’t played in years!”
Me: “great!” “How much money do you think you will lose?”
Coworker: . *wonders what kind of person you are*

This approach isn’t going to get you players.

Agreed. You really don't "screen the potential players" so much as you allow the players to screen your game. When talking with someone who hasn't played in my game before, I'll lay out what our game is like, and give them expectations as to how much gets on the table and whether the game is played tight or loose.

And as a potential player myself, scoping out a new game, I don't wait for the host to give me this info. I straight up ask for it.

 

[deeoohhgee]

I almost sounds like your group wants to play a bigger game than a smaller one. If there are pre-flop bets to $10 in a .25/.50 game it's definitely not a "friendly" game and your player pool wants to gamble or play for stacks.

My guess is if you lower the stakes/buy-in, you will see similar jams but with more frequent rebuys and add-ons until the amount of money in play gets to where you are now.


I don't know how one might go about trying to reel that behavior in. I am curious to see what others suggest or what they have done that works.

agreed ... seeing those sorts of pot sizes at those stakes ... why don't y'all just try moving to a $1-$2 with a 25¢ ante (if you play antes)? Am also curious to see how you do, as it definitely does seem like your guys are ready to go bigger ...