Hosts Thoughts on the old “Something Came Up” Cancellation (4 Viewers)

[merkong]

Player late cancels for a session… Many variables of course; regular or newer player, surgery vs. night out with friends…

While things come up is it in every hosts DNA to silently scrutinize these call outs even if a seemingly, and not tragic, excuse is given? Also, when you get the “Some buddies want to hang out” rationale, after your head is done exploding, do you consider the reshuffle of the Rolodex to make sure that it flows reflective of players that want to be at the game?

While we don’t experience things of this nature often, even GFC has had some excuses for non-attendance that could be seen as concerning.

We tell folks to stay away if they’re not feeling well and of course would understand urgent matters. One of the rare cancels by a player was justified (by them mind you) because they “decided to go to a movie.” Well have fun Joe Hollywood. Also, let us know how the view is from the wait list.

Again, it rare and maybe for a lot of hosts. In addition to us not sweating a 9, 8 or even 7 handed session because we are a cash game first, onward we go. Pull that in a tourney (rare at GFC) and while it would be seen as a bit more egregious, it still wouldn’t entirely freak me out.

We have a player pool that runs 40 deep including super intermittents but I’d rather not spend my day texting people…

So, retribution or a warm welcome back no matter how flimsy the reason or how short the notice?

Go!

Ken (merkong) 500+ Sessions Spread
Owner/Operator/Founder:
*The Godfather Club MN (The Venue)
*The Executive Game, (The Current Game)
*Frogtown Card Club, St. Paul (Retired Venue)
*The Poker Family (Our Philosophy)

The Godfather Club - Minnesota | Poker Chip Forum

 

[krafticus]

I have a 2-strike approach.
If you have replied yes to my game and don't show up, and I have to text/call/email you to find out what's up -- that's strike 1. If you do it again, I don't call/text and I drop you from my invite list. I've also made that well known to my players, and 99% follow that rule. yes, I've removed people. I've given them their warnings.

Some people, I'll let back on the list, some I won't. If you've been coming to my game for 15 years, and this happens, I'll chat in private, but I'll let you know it pissed me off. Newer people, I tell them that they'll know it happened when they stop getting invites.

 

[JMC9389]

As a host, I haven't once had confirmations exceed what I'm capable of hosting. I always try to accommodate everyone even if they have cancelled last minute in the past.

Though, if I'm ever in a situation where I have to scrutinize who gets first dibs at a seat, the people that are reliable and don't cancel on me will certainly get first crack.

 

[detroitdad]

A lot of it depends on my current history and relationship with the person. Most of the guys that play in my game rarely cancel. So if they do, then it is usually something that is serious, or unavoidable.

If it is a player with a history of cancellation, or a new guy. I will drop them down on the invite list to the second round, or even third round of invites.

 

[chippitydoodah]

Recently I had to cancel playing in two different games a week apart from each other and both were work related emergencies (the off duty types). It killed me but "duty called". On the flip side, I recently had a player cancel last minute on my own game because he "forgot the Tyson fight was on". I guess there's always different circumstances and I think each person is entitled to be treated different from another based on their character and past history. If yours is a game that has no problem filling a seat then you can axe someone for any reason you'd like.

 

[krafticus]

I have a 2-strike approach.
If you have replied yes to my game and don't show up, and I have to text/call/email you to find out what's up -- that's strike 1. If you do it again, I don't call/text and I drop you from my invite list. I've also made that well known to my players, and 99% follow that rule. yes, I've removed people. I've given them their warnings.

Some people, I'll let back on the list, some I won't. If you've been coming to my game for 15 years, and this happens, I'll chat in private, but I'll let you know it pissed me off. Newer people, I tell them that they'll know it happened when they stop getting invites.

I should also add, my games start at 7pm. I kindly ask my players to let me know no later than noon-ish the day of. Sure, things happen. My game is a tournament, so I usually have to redo the player pool and seating and such, which can be a pain.

Send me an email/text at 4pm, I'll live, and I have time to make corrections. 6:30 when people are showing up .. nope. after 7 (which has happened) .. that's a no for me dog.

 

[merkong]

I have a 2-strike approach.
If you have replied yes to my game and don't show up, and I have to text/call/email you to find out what's up -- that's strike 1. If you do it again, I don't call/text and I drop you from my invite list. I've also made that well known to my players, and 99% follow that rule. yes, I've removed people. I've given them their warnings.

Some people, I'll let back on the list, some I won't. If you've been coming to my game for 15 years, and this happens, I'll chat in private, but I'll let you know it pissed me off. Newer people, I tell them that they'll know it happened when they stop getting invites.

It’s all situational isn’t it. Nipping it in the bud is definitely in the Hosting 101 manual.

 

[krafticus]

It’s all situational isn’t it. Nipping it in the bud is definitely in the Hosting 101 manual.

always !! Hey, life happens. I've hosted many a game that I wish I could have cancelled as I wasn't feeling it, or had an offer to do something else. I've cancelled 2 games for when I got really sick, and didn't want people in the house as well (again, it's a monthly game).

and yes, I've had some reasons provided that made me scratch my head. Only one actually got a player taken off my list for good, but that was just the final straw in a list of other things that happened too.

To me though, its a respect thing. I respect every one of my players, and I hope that they have that same level of respect for me.

 

[moose]

One time, I was struggling to get a game to run. So I announce that if I don't get one more player by 5pm the night before, I'm going to cancel the game. This fucker says "I'll play" around 4:30 pm. So great. I announce that the game is on and make sure everyone on my list knows the game will go.

The next day I wake up feeling awful but I wasn't going to be the one to cancel the game after making the call the night before. So I sleep in and miss my kids sporting event so I can rest up and struggle through the evening. I wake up mid-afternoon and this asshole has cancelled, claiming that if someone flakes then there won't be enough to run the game and he doesn't want to take that chance. No other reason other than calling the rest of my players unreliable. No asshole, my players are reliable. You are the flake. I convince my wife to sit in and play to keep the game running.

Same deal with me about the lack of respect for me and the other players and what arrangements they had to make to attend the game (babysitting, deal with the wife etc).

Instant lifetime ban.

 

[merkong]

As a host, I haven't once had confirmations exceed what I'm capable of hosting. I always try to accommodate everyone even if they have cancelled last minute in the past.

Though, if I'm ever in a situation where I have to scrutinize who gets first dibs at a seat, the people that are reliable and don't cancel on me will certainly get first crack.

As opposed to offering my seats to the vast majority of my Rolodex, GFC weekly Executive Game operates under the “right of first refusal” model.

Saturday morning all attendees get the personalized “thanks for coming and good to see you” text. In that text is the “I’m tabling up for this Friday so LMK as soon as you do if you want in.”

70-80% of my crew are weekly players leaving me with 2-3 seats I have to present to the masses.

How a players track record on any number of metrics; typical availability, has there been cancels, how they hit and run the game etc etc are all taken into account.

The law of RoFR also creates a “if you take a week off for any reason you might get waitlisted just by all 10 players coming back. Rarely happens though.

 

[merkong]

To me though, its a respect thing. I respect every one of my players, and I hope that they have that same level of respect for me.

It is isn’t it. This outlandish concept goes a step further in the timeliness, or lack thereof, with which players text back when offered a seat.

I mean it’s 2024… We all text. We all see texts.

The main office is crafting a memo to all players on this single courtesy that will go out with the New Year announcements.

Hey, if you’re alive, not at a funeral, in surgery, or having sex, I deserve a text back fairly promptly.

In the case of the latter I should be hearing back in about 2 minutes.

Be polite. You’re holding up tabling.

 

[merkong]

One time, I was struggling to get a game to run. So I announce that if I don't get one more player by 5pm the night before, I'm going to cancel the game. This fucker says "I'll play" around 4:30 pm. So great. I announce that the game is on and make sure everyone on my list knows the game will go.

The next day I wake up feeling awful but I wasn't going to be the one to cancel the game after making the call the night before. So I sleep in and miss my kids sporting event so I can rest up and struggle through the evening. I wake up mid-afternoon and this asshole has cancelled, claiming that if someone flakes then there won't be enough to run the game and he doesn't want to take that chance. No other reason other than calling the rest of my players unreliable. No asshole, my players are reliable. You are the flake. I convince my wife to sit in and play to keep the game running.

Same deal with me about the lack of respect for me and the other players and what arrangements they had to make to attend the game (babysitting, deal with the wife etc).

Instant lifetime ban.

The kind of stuff that keeps hosts awake at night. Lifetime ban approved. No coming back from that.

“If someone cancels the game will fold. I can’t take that chance so I’m canceling.”

FFS

Bad player HOF Nominee

 

[Nine_high]

Player late cancels for a session… Many variables of course; regular or newer player, surgery vs. night out with friends…

While things come up is it in every hosts DNA to silently scrutinize these call outs even if a seemingly, and not tragic, excuse is given? Also, when you get the “Some buddies want to hang out” rationale, after your head is done exploding, do you consider the reshuffle of the Rolodex to make sure that it flows reflective of players that want to be at the game?

While we don’t experience things of this nature often, even GFC has had some excuses for non-attendance that could be seen as concerning.

We tell folks to stay away if they’re not feeling well and of course would understand urgent matters. One of the rare cancels by a player was justified (by them mind you) because they “decided to go to a movie.” Well have fun Joe Hollywood. Also, let us know how the view is from the wait list.

Again, it rare and maybe for a lot of hosts. In addition to us not sweating a 9, 8 or even 7 handed session because we are a cash game first, onward we go. Pull that in a tourney (rare at GFC) and while it would be seen as a bit more egregious, it still wouldn’t entirely freak me out.

We have a player pool that runs 40 deep including super intermittents but I’d rather not spend my day texting people…

So, retribution or a warm welcome back no matter how flimsy the reason or how short the notice?

Go!

Ken (merkong) 500+ Sessions Spread
Owner/Operator/Founder:
*The Godfather Club MN (The Venue)
*The Executive Game, (The Current Game)
*Frogtown Card Club, St. Paul (Retired Venue)
*The Poker Family (Our Philosophy)

The Godfather Club - Minnesota | Poker Chip Forum

View attachment 1433062

When someone flakes like this, meaning something better came along as opposed to some kind of urgent matter, I just bump them down to the second invite list. Their RSVP doesn't count anymore for establishing a game so I generally don't even invite them until I get enough RSVPs from my first invite list.

 

[mdt11]

I'm still a wannabe host, but in my experience at work, dating, friendships, etc... you can tell when someone is sincere and when they aren't with maybe 99% accuracy. I imagine it's the same here and your instincts can tell when someone earnestly had something legit come up and they are remorseful vs... when they aren't.

For the hosts on here - do you have tiers of invite lists with your players that you cycle through? Do you send out notices to tier A, wait, then tier B, wait, group C if needed etc... If not, if you get a full table of "yes"es across tiers, and then someone from tier A (or someone generally regular and reliable) wants to join, do you put them on the list? boot someone less trustworthy?

Interesting discussion!

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

I'm still a wannabe host, but in my experience at work, dating, friendships, etc... you can tell when someone is sincere and when they aren't with maybe 99% accuracy. I imagine it's the same here and your instincts can tell when someone earnestly had something legit come up and they are remorseful vs... when they aren't.

For the hosts on here - do you have tiers of invite lists with your players that you cycle through? Do you send out notices to tier A, wait, then tier B, wait, group C if needed etc... If not, if you get a full table of "yes"es across tiers, and then someone from tier A (or someone generally regular and reliable) wants to join, do you put them on the list? boot someone less trustworthy?

Interesting discussion!

Definitely tiers. I text my best first to make sure they're free, then slot people in on a rough rotation. Never write it down but I just think about who I miss or who would be fun to have.

Agreed with the sincerity, trust your gut. The one caveat with poker is making sure people know how annoying it is when the flake, this isn't a party, the number of people sometimes really matters.

 

[upNdown]

you can tell when someone is sincere and when they aren't

It doesn't matter. Either somebody makes the poker a game priority, or they do not. And if they don't, you don't want them messing up your game.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

It doesn't matter. Either somebody makes the poker a game priority, or they do not. And if they don't, you don't want them messing up your game.

Doesn't binary thinking get boring after a while? Honest question, it seems easier but life happens and greys it all up.

 

[upNdown]

Doesn't binary thinking get boring after a while? Honest question, it seems easier but life happens and greys it all up.

Maybe?

 

[upNdown]

Maybe?

Seriously though. I have a player where life happens more often than not. I sympathize - he's a busy guy with young kids. I don't hold it against him, but I know I can't count on him.
I don't have the luxury of having a 1 or 2 strike policy, and even if I did, yeah, there are greys here. If they flake out twice in a year, I could probably live with that. If they flake out twice in a month, I'd rather not.

 

[merkong]

For the hosts on here - do you have tiers of invite lists with your players that you cycle through? Do you send out notices to tier A, wait, then tier B, wait, group C if needed etc.

The Law of Right of First Refusal; you’re at the game and your seat is yours to surrender for next week. Typically looking only having 2-3 seats maximum for the next week.

The the perusing thru the Rolodex begins

 

[MrCatPants]

2 strikes for newbies. From then on, waitlist only. Grace for regulars as there aren't any flakes/bad actors because of the first policy.

 

[Phoe9x]

For the hosts on here - do you have tiers of invite lists with your players that you cycle through? Do you send out notices to tier A, wait, then tier B, wait, group C if needed etc... If not, if you get a full table of "yes"es across tiers, and then someone from tier A (or someone generally regular and reliable) wants to join, do you put them on the list? boot someone less trustworthy?

I’m working on expanding my invite list, since I struggle getting a game going. So maybe my word isn’t the best, but I would start by sending out A list for your known regulars, after a bit then send B list, and so on. I would go on a first come first serve basis after that.

 

[jxfan]

When someone flakes like this, meaning something better came along as opposed to some kind of urgent matter, I just bump them down to the second invite list. Their RSVP doesn't count anymore for establishing a game so I generally don't even invite them until I get enough RSVPs from my first invite list.

Completely agree! In my mind I have a first and second invite list, the first being people I know will be there if they say yes, and the second being people who have flaked once or multiple times in the past. I like to have a solid 7-8 for sure yes before I send a game!

 

[Nine_high]

For the hosts on here - do you have tiers of invite lists with your players that you cycle through? Do you send out notices to tier A, wait, then tier B, wait, group C if needed etc... If not, if you get a full table of "yes"es across tiers, and then someone from tier A (or someone generally regular and reliable) wants to join, do you put them on the list? boot someone less trustworthy?

Interesting discussion!

I have three separate tiers. Tier 1 are my reliables, who make playing a priority. They don't flake short of a true emergency. I use this group to establish whether a game will happen so really what I'm doing is figuring out which weekend the next game will be. I need five to say they are in to establish a game.

Tier 2 are the people who like to play and are good company but are unreliable for attendance. They generally don't get invited until a game is already established.

Tier 3 are basically new people, unresponsive people, or one and done types who show up late or only stay for a couple hours. I invite them to try and fill the last couple seats or keep seats full late into the session.

 

[mdt11]

Seriously though. I have a player where life happens more often than not. I sympathize - he's a busy guy with young kids. I don't hold it against him, but I know I can't count on him.
I don't have the luxury of having a 1 or 2 strike policy, and even if I did, yeah, there are greys here. If they flake out twice in a year, I could probably live with that. If they flake out twice in a month, I'd rather not.

You came around the point I was going to make to your original post ha. A reliable player who you trust has to bail occasionally because something came up (sick kid, family obligation), gives you as much notice as possible, and seems genuinely remorseful seems like the guy you want at your game. The guy who is flaking all the time is clearly not.

 

[OTGladiator]

Player late cancels for a session… Many variables of course; regular or newer player, surgery vs. night out with friends…

While things come up is it in every hosts DNA to silently scrutinize these call outs even if a seemingly, and not tragic, excuse is given? Also, when you get the “Some buddies want to hang out” rationale, after your head is done exploding, do you consider the reshuffle of the Rolodex to make sure that it flows reflective of players that want to be at the game?

While we don’t experience things of this nature often, even GFC has had some excuses for non-attendance that could be seen as concerning.

We tell folks to stay away if they’re not feeling well and of course would understand urgent matters. One of the rare cancels by a player was justified (by them mind you) because they “decided to go to a movie.” Well have fun Joe Hollywood. Also, let us know how the view is from the wait list.

Again, it rare and maybe for a lot of hosts. In addition to us not sweating a 9, 8 or even 7 handed session because we are a cash game first, onward we go. Pull that in a tourney (rare at GFC) and while it would be seen as a bit more egregious, it still wouldn’t entirely freak me out.

We have a player pool that runs 40 deep including super intermittents but I’d rather not spend my day texting people…

So, retribution or a warm welcome back no matter how flimsy the reason or how short the notice?

Go!

Ken (merkong) 500+ Sessions Spread
Owner/Operator/Founder:
*The Godfather Club MN (The Venue)
*The Executive Game, (The Current Game)
*Frogtown Card Club, St. Paul (Retired Venue)
*The Poker Family (Our Philosophy)

The Godfather Club - Minnesota | Poker Chip Forum

View attachment 1433062

I play a cash game that I think is very limited invite only once a month. I was up front with the host as soon as I was invited in that there would be games that I wasn’t able to attend because of vacation and work travel. I think that he has a good pen of backup players that he can reach out to if he needs to fill a seat that I or other regulars can’t fill in any particular game. Just keep some backups in the queue for cases like this and reach out with at least a week’s notice so you can know who’s gonna be there and how many seats you need to fill.

 

[Sparkynutz]

I used to play with work buddy's roughly monthly but most of us worked together same shift so getting a game going was pretty easily arranged during work for what night we wanted to play etc.
I don't recall anyone flaking ever. Back then they'd fight over who was gonna host cuz that person didn't have to drive and could get sloshed lol.

Factory we worked at closed, many guys moved away or died and those games ended. Myself and 2 other guys left of the original group have struggled to get enough guys to play dealers choice like we used to. All 3 of us host a few times a year if we are lucky enough to gather enough people. Many times we can only get enough guys if we agree to a holdem tournament because that's what a few guys invited will only play. Half the people we invite flake last minute and if we cut them from invite list we wouldn't be able to host ever. We invite 20+ guys and about 50% of the time the game gets canceled. Many times we play anyways with 4 or 5 guys and very rarely we get lucky and get enough people for more than one table. Has to be a holdem tournament or many won't come.

To the OP. I feel your pain.
I'd cut flakes liars and no shows if I could. Fortunately majority of the guys I invite are up front and just give me a maybe instead of a yes then cancel.
A handful I can count on for sure if they say yes but getting the stars to align and them not having prior plans is hard.

This week I started talking to a new guy that plays at a regular game hosted every Thursday night at 7pm. Its only 15 minutes away from me.
He said its a 3 table holdem tournament that rarely finishes before 1-2am.
This guy hasnt had any luck getting his friends added to invite list due to being full so my chances of being added are slim before taking my schedule into account.

I currently work Thursday 99% of the time and don't get home from work till 9:30-10pm and about 70% of the time work Friday morning at 9am.

My proposal would be to have him ask if they'd allow me to stop sometime just to chat or offer help cleaning up even.
If there was enough guys out of tournament by 10pm when I'd get there to play 2-3 hours of cash games. If they don't already would they allow me to join that part only? Heck I'd even bring a nice set of cash chips to use.

Guys that host, What likelihood would you be to consider a straggler like me to crash the party?
Would you just laugh and ignore or meet me with hostility since my schedule doesn't jive with the group?
Do you ever allow an extra guy to come late that would rarely if ever flake?
If I ever say yes to an invite it's because I'm going to be there. The problem is that many invites I get I tell them right away I can't be there by start time or at all probably gets me taken off invite list

I'd really like to start hosting a regular cash game but pick a different day and earlier.
Say 2nd Tuesday of every month at 4pm.
My main goal is to recruit a few of these regulars that may have similar interests and find guys that have a schedule closer to mine as well.

Thoughts?

 

[Tonystark137]

@Sparkynutz
I played at home games where players only come for the cash game after the tournament. I have had players come to my games late (with prior notice)
I think I would only allow someone to bank at my place if it's someone I trust. As the host I feel like even if someone else banks I feel partly responsible for correct payouts.

 

[Sparkynutz]

@Sparkynutz
I played at home games where players only come for the cash game after the tournament. I have had players come to my games late (with prior notice)
I think I would only allow someone to bank at my place if it's someone I trust. As the host I feel like even if someone else banks I feel partly responsible for correct payouts.

I didn't think of that part.
Main hope is that there's already cash game going that I could join late and try to invite guys to mine.

 

[Tonystark137]

I didn't think of that part.
Main hope is that there's already cash game going that I could join late and try to invite guys to mine.

I think it's all host dependent. There are two locations near me that schedule cash games after their tournaments with an expected time for cash games and different sign up times. (Typically a muti table location)

I have had local chippers who have brought and banked at my place. I bank and bring chips of my regulars when they host. So I don't think it would hurt to ask. Definitely play in a few cash games and get to know the people first.