How Do you play Pocket 88 (2 Viewers)

[asam2006]

I'm having problems knowing what to do with these fella's in NLHE cash games. Any sage advice would be appreciated.

 

[detroitdad]

Make up of the table, who is to my left and right, and what my position is matters a ton with small/middle pairs.

 

[CantSpellPoker]

All depends on if the blind has been raised yet, if there are limpers, what position you're in, opponents' playing style, etc...

I'm no expert, but it's always been my understanding that a hand like plays well heads up, or in a pot with several players where you're getting the right odds to flop your set. Against 2-3 other players, where there are pre-flop raises involved, perhaps not so much? Others who have forgotten more than I know will chime in with their thoughts, I'm sure.

 

[longflop]

All depends on if the blind has been raised yet, if there are limpers, what position you're in, opponents' playing style, etc...

I'm no expert, but it's always been my understanding that a hand like plays well heads up, or in a pot with several players where you're getting the right odds to flop your set. Against 2-3 other players, where there are pre-flop raises involved, perhaps not so much? Others who have forgotten more than I know will chime in with their thoughts, I'm sure.

Despite your username, your spelling seems spot on.

 

[justsomedude]

Make up of the table, who is to my left and right, and what my position is matters a ton with small/middle pairs.

Action before and after also plays a key role.

If two guys get into a raising battle and I'm stuck between them, I'm likely folding. If my pre-flop raise gets called by a few players, then I'm happy to see a flop. If there is an ALLIN before me I might fold (depending on their stack size and playing history that I've witnessed). If they're a LAG and running low on chips, I may re-jam all day long and twice on Sundays, just to isolate.

88s is a goofy holding... it really depends on everything else going on at the table, position, stack sizes, and all the information you've been able to ascertain on playing styles thus far. That said, to give you one simple answer... if action limps around to me, I'm always putting in a sizable raise, regardless of position. Getting limped to with 88s requires some aggression. Gotta chase out those crum bums and shoe clerks.

 

[TheOctagon]

You're 7 to 1 against to make your set on the flop so unless you have some intense donkers around you, you're sunk without correct odds (requires a lot of pre-flop fireworks + bigtime donk bets, if you're in late position and hope to just get by with a call, for instance) against a ton of better starting hands. I can always make the case to raise the button, within reason, holding middle pocket pair like that especially if my raises are getting respect.

Again: position matters. Other players matter. If it's early in the round, I'm probably going to let it go to any bet bigger than the minimum in early or middle position and only raise on the button occasionally until I have a better feel for the table.

 

[WedgeRock]

or in a pot with several players where you're getting the right odds to flop your set.

The odds of flopping a set are 12%. Unless it's limped to me in the blind and I have rags, I don't want to get involved in many hands with 7 other people...

88 is tough. Your best flop brings a set, but you have to worry about over sets if there is aggression post-flop. You could flop an OESD, but if you make a straight, it's never the nut straight. Ditto for flush draws. Outside of quads, you can rarely make the nuts with 88. So consider your ability to play post-flop (which includes a consideration of opponents in the hand, position, pot size, effective stacks, etc.) If you have a good handle on post flop play, put in a raise. Otherwise, limp in the hopes of seeing a flop and be ready to fold if rasied after you.

 

[Josh Kifer]

88s, depending on position and blinds, I'll normally limp in. Our table has way too many calling stations to scare them off with a raise, so I'll smooth it and hopefully hit. If the board comes out weak, I'll take a value bet to scoop. But I won't push too hard unless it's a few callers or I can squeeze someone.

 

[FDLmold]

Stack sizes are probably the biggest factor in whether to play these.

 

[RichMahogany]

I play them carefully or aggressively, dependent on many factors already stated

 

[rimmerryan]

Carefully!

 

[PlaidDragon]

As was already mentioned: position matters; action before and behind matters; pot odds matters; table head count matters. Way too many variables to pick one strat for it.

 

[Lemonzest]

If you can raise pre flop to isolate and get heads up to a flop they are not bad. You have to be ready to play the player though and really be able to hand read your opponent.

 

[ekricket]

If you can raise pre flop to isolate and get heads up to a flop they are not bad. You have to be ready to play the player though and really be able to hand read your opponent.

I don’t know, it seems counterintuitive, but I think it’s better to limp and hope you carry 5-6 people to the flop.
Raised to get to heads up gets you in trouble I think. Any higher pair, AK, AQ or possible two face cards is going to call you, and your going to fold to any bet after a flop that contains those cards.

80% or more of the time you are folding to a flop that has face cards or an ace, so why put more money in just to fold later?

As mentioned above these kinds of hands after the flop require position, solid reads, and shitty flops to continue with.

 

[Lemonzest]

I don’t know, it seems counterintuitive, but I think it’s better to limp and hope you carry 5-6 people to the flop.
Raised to get to heads up gets you in trouble I think. Any higher pair, AK, AQ or possible two face cards is going to call you, and your going to fold to any bet after a flop that contains those cards.

80% or more of the time you are folding to a flop that has face cards or an ace, so why put more money in just to fold later?

As mentioned above these kinds of hands after the flop require position, solid reads, and shitty flops to continue with.

Yeah it makes sense. At my small stakes 6 person home game I would always raise 88. In a casino where it is full ring and I am playing for much more money I wouldn't raise 88, I would limp hoping to hit a set.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Simple, the best way possible!

Preferably with 10-9 double suited or AA double suited in PLO

If you have to play Hold’em with them set mine if deep enough in early/mid position. In late position it fine to raise with them. Just don’t get married to them. It is rare that you will win a big pot with them that doesn’t make a set.

 

[Jonesey07]

Wow, 15 replies in and not one calls for

 

[asam2006]

As was already mentioned: position matters; action before and behind matters; pot odds matters; table head count matters. Way too many variables to pick one strat for it.

I left this topic open ended because I'm lazy and I wanted you 'all to fill in the blanks with your scenarios and you did not disappoint. I will reread this thread

 

[JustinInMN]

So if you play 88 there's two ways to go in my opinion.

1) For value...
Ideally get the pot shorthanded and hope to catch a flop that misses unpaired holdings.

2) Set mine...
Hope you can limp in cheaply in a biggish pot and imorove to 3 of a kind.

Most of the suggestions above fit in one of these categories, and as already mentioned, position is a huge consideration.

Early position:. How does the table typically respond to your raises, are you going to called in two spots or six? If the former, raising is worth considering. If not maybe consider calling. Hope to start a "limp train" which would make a good set mine spot.

How does the table respond to calling? Will you get raised an reraised often. If so you are better off folding.

Middle to late position: I am usually not calling raises with this hand unless it's a loose raisers and calling makes an okay set mine spot. I am almost never continuing against a raise and a reraise.

But if I am first in, I am always raising myself to try and pick up the blinds.

From the blinds:

I will usually call a small raise to set mine, but I will sometimes reraise against steal raises.

On the flop the best case scenario is to improve to 3 of a kind, but usually that won't happen. In that, I am hoping to flop 3 undercards, and in that case I am going to play fast. If I even flop a single overcard like a 9, T, or J in a short handed pot I may try to bet to fold out unimproved non pair hands that would still have overcard draws.

In a pot with lots of players I am looking for the exit most of the time. In a shorthanded pot I am going to play to win on the flop, and shut down unimproved a lot on the later streets.

But just a bunch of broad ideas since it was a broad question. I may be wrong .

 

[ekricket]

So if you play 88 there's two ways to go in my opinion.

1) For value...
Ideally get the pot shorthanded and hope to catch a flop that misses unpaired holdings.

2) Set mine...
Hope you can limp in cheaply in a biggish pot and imorove to 3 of a kind.

Most of the suggestions above fit in one of these categories, and as already mentioned, position is a huge consideration.

Early position:. How does the table typically respond to your raises, are you going to called in two spots or six? If the former, raising is worth considering. If not maybe consider calling. Hope to start a "limp train" which would make a good set mine spot.

How does the table respond to calling? Will you get raised an reraised often. If so you are better off folding.

Middle to late position: I am usually not calling raises with this hand unless it's a loose raisers and calling makes an okay set mine spot. I am almost never continuing against a raise and a reraise.

But if I am first in, I am always raising myself to try and pick up the blinds.

From the blinds:

I will usually call a small raise to set mine, but I will sometimes reraise against steal raises.

On the flop the best case scenario is to improve to 3 of a kind, but usually that won't happen. In that, I am hoping to flop 3 undercards, and in that case I am going to play fast. If I even flop a single overcard like a 9, T, or J in a short handed pot I may try to bet to fold out unimproved non pair hands that would still have overcard draws.

In a pot with lots of players I am looking for the exit most of the time. In a shorthanded pot I am going to play to win on the flop, and shut down unimproved a lot on the later streets.

But just a bunch of broad ideas since it was a broad question. I may be wrong .

I think your spot on. Notice that the strategies all start with “hope” which is not a good plan no matter what your doing. Coupled with your always looking for an exit, to me I’m not looking to win a tournament or someone’s stack with these, and so I just don’t want to put much money in Preflop since I’m looking to get out somewhere anyway.


Looking at it the other way I’m always looking to find someone married to their small pocket pairs and clean up on it.

 

[Highli99]

I like to 4 bet with it sometimes.

 

[asam2006]

But just a bunch of broad ideas since it was a broad question. I may be wrong

Sounds like great advice to me. Thanks for the thoughtful and well considered explanation. I particular appreciated your thinking about how to play this from each position.

 

[JustinInMN]

I like to 4 bet with it sometimes.

Always have all options open, just know your victims, I mean opponents.

 

[bivey]

Cash or tourney? Makes a big difference.

 

[Cyo]

Need to know position and stack size. Small/med pocket pairs are generally a limp in most positions unless it's folded to me in late position, where I may raise depending on the nature of the folks behind me. In most cases, I love to see cheap flops with these. They are easy to get away from and play well multiway.

 

[JustinInMN]

I think your spot on. Notice that the strategies all start with “hope” which is not a good plan no matter what your doing.

Nothing wrong with hope as long as you know you are hoping for the right things, and ready to fold when needed

 

[WedgeRock]

I am hoping to flop 3 undercards

Three undercards is going to make a limper a straight draw, no? 247? 257?

 

[JustinInMN]

Three undercards is going to make a limper a straight draw, no? 247? 257?

Indeed. If I have come in raising, hopefully not too many calling hands fit this board. If I come in calling, I can bet to price the draw out (or at least to only get actions from the open enders). And even if you flop 3 undercards, half the deck is still over cards to make higher pairs.

And with 88 in particular we partially block a lot of the straights.

There are a lot of bad run-outs with middle pairs for sure and a lot of cues to fold.

But I would rather dodge straights as a favorite than flop AKQ or whatnot every time .

 

[WedgeRock]

Jerry Yang won the WSOP ME with pocket eights..

:

 

[RainmanTrail]

Implied odds. If you're struggling with these hands, you need to study how implied odds should affect your play.