Tourney How Long Will This Tourney Structure Run? (1 Viewer)

Anthony Martino

Royal Flush
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I'm guessing around 5-5.5 hrs with 10 players?

20 min levels
starting stacks: 200K

optional add-on for 100K chips (essentially everyone will take it, so assume 300K starting stacks)

ONE optional rebuy for the first (and only the first) player to bust from the tourney through the end of level seven (4/8K blinds)



500/1K
1K/2K
1.5K/3K
2K/4K
2.5K/5K

**10 min break, color up 500 chips**

3K/6K
4k/8K
6K/12K
8K/16K

**10 min break, color up 1K chips*

10K/20K
15K/30K
20K/40K
30K/60K
40K/80K
 
Last edited:
With 3 million on the table, you'll be pretty short stacked by 30k/60k (50 BB total). That's only 4:20 in, counting breaks.
 
With 3 million on the table, you'll be pretty short stacked by 30k/60k (50 BB total). That's only 4:20 in, counting breaks.

You'd be surprised at how some of these guys will limp and minbet in those large betting rounds rather than just shoving, they really drag it out. Well, unless I'm headsup, then I'm pounding
 
With 10 players, T300K stacks, and 20-minute levels, it will typically last no longer than L16 - about 5.5 hours plus breaks (roughly six hours total). Dropping the blinds down to 15-minute levels shortens the event to about 4 hours plus breaks (4.5 hours total).

You are also going to need more levels, since the shown structure only goes through L14. And while you're making minor changes, this one is much better - all blind increases are 25%-50% (averaging 40%), vs less consistent 20%-100% increases with your structure:

rd sb bb
L1 500 1000
L2 500 1500
L3 1000 2000
L4 1500 3000
remove T500 chips
L5 2000 4000
L6 3000 6000
L7 4000 8000
L8 6000 12000
L9 8000 16000
remove T1000 chips
L10 10000 20000
L11 15000 30000
L12 20000 40000
L13 30000 60000
L14 40000 80000
remove T5000 chips
L15 50000 100000
L16 75000 150000 ***
L17 100000 200000
L18 150000 300000
remove T25K chips
L19 200000 400000
L20 300000 600000
L21 400000 800000
L22 500000 1000000

Btw, those initial 100K chip buys are add-ons, not re-buys.

How much is your lone optional re-buy through L7 -- 200K? 100K? 300K? If 100K, that's only starting L8 with 8+BB.... even a 200K stack is less than 17BB at that point.
 
How much is your lone optional re-buy through L7 -- 200K? 100K? 300K? If 100K, that's only starting L8 with 8+BB.... even a 200K stack is less than 17BB at that point.

Sorry, updated OP, they are add-ons not rebuys. As far as the optional rebuy goes, the player can pay $30 for 200K chips and another $10 for the 100K chip add-on.
 
Good, 300K is a minimum of 25bb (certainly a playable stack) starting L8, and more if purchased earlier than the end of L7.
 
I just can't bring myself to do a 500/1500 level, OCD or something. How about this for a more even progression of blinds, keeping tourney around 5-5.5 hrs?

20 min levels still

500/1K
1K/2K
1.5K/3K
2K/4K
2.5K/5K

**10 min break, color up 500 chips**

3K/6K
4k/8K
6K/12K
8K/16K
10K/20k
12/24K (NEW)

**10 min break, color up 1K chips**

15K/30K
20K/40K
25/50K (NEW)
30K/60K
40K/80K

**10 min break, color up 5K chips** NEW

50K/100K (play until winner) NEW
 
I like the dumping of the 500/1500 level. I get the logic, but I don't like it either. I would continue to extend levels up top too. with 3,000,000+ on the table, it the top 2 are equal, they will be playing 15-16 BB each, which when playing for the top prizes could be a little less shovey - but that's my group. It certainly doesn't hurt to play it out at 100,000 but I like to make sure I know when a tournament will end.
 
How about this for a more even progression of blinds

Except that it isn't a more even progression. In fact, it's worse.

There is a reason they call it the small blind, and not the half-blind. Nowhere does it state that the small blind must be half of the large blind, quite the contrary. Some places even use 0/25 and 25/25 as blind levels. Ever hear of a 1/3 or 2/5 cash game?

Bottom line is that 100% blind increases suck for a variety of sound reasons, and should be avoided. Best alternate plan is to start with 1000/2000 blinds and T600K stacks.


The blinds are forced bets posted by players to the left of the dealer button in flop-style poker games. The number of blinds is usually two, but it can range from none to three.

The small blind is placed by the player to the left of the dealer button and the big blind is then posted by the next player to the left. The one exception is when there are only two players (a "heads-up" game), when the player on the button is the small blind, and the other player is the big blind. (Both the player and the bet may be referred to as big or small blind.)

After the cards are dealt, the player to the left of the big blind is the first to act during the first betting round. If any players call the big blind, the big blind is then given an extra opportunity to raise. This is known as a live blind. If the live blind checks, the betting round then ends.

Generally, the "big blind" is equal to the minimum bet. The "small blind" is normally half the big blind. In cases where posting exactly half the big blind is impractical due to the big blind being some odd-valued denomination, the small blind is rounded (usually down) to the nearest practical value.

In poker tournament play, blinds serve a dual purpose. In addition to the purpose explained above, blinds are also used to control how long the tournament will last. Before the tournament begins, the players will agree to a blinds structure, usually set by the tournament organizer. This structure defines how long each round is and how much the blinds increase per round. Typically, they are increased at a smooth rate of between 25% and 50% per round over the previous round.
 
Bottom line is that 100% blind increases suck for a variety of sound reasons, and should be avoided. .


Maybe I'm tired and not seeing it, but the only 100% increase in my structure I see is from the first level to the 2nd level (500/1K to 1K/2K). What am I missing?
 
No point in wasting the first 20 minutes in what is essentially a 150BB structure.
 
10 players at 200K means 2,000,000. Your top big blind is 100,000, so if the chips are even when it goes heads-up, each player has 10 BB, which should wrap it up fairly quickly. Even if your add-ons take the total chips from 2,000,000 to 3,000,000, an even split at heads-up still means each player has 15 BB. It shouldn't run too long. There's a good chance you don't reach the last level, especially if it isn't an even split, but others have better experience on that...

As far as the progressions - if you chart the big blinds on a log scale, a smooth progression would make a straight line. Here's what you progression looks like:

upload_2015-12-11_15-22-14.png


The craziest jump is the steepest part - from 1k to 2k. Other spots, like 8k to 12k, and 20k to 30k, are also very steep. A straight line here would be "perfection," but would require crazy level and lots of small chips, especially for the small blinds.

One alternative, if you won't break from the 1/2 vs 1 format for small versus big, is just to start at a 1k/2k blind, followed by a 1.5k/3k blind. I realize this makes it a 100BB structure tourney, but it allows for smoothing out the other levels. I get this for 16 levels ending followed by a 100k BB:

upload_2015-12-11_15-31-51.png


The worst jump here is 2k to 3k. I think of this progression as 16 playing levels, and one "Final Battle" level to finish out the heads-up, if it didn't end earlier.

It would require a slight change in the breaks to avoid running off of the 1K chips before the 11th level, if you want to only do running off during breaks... because you get an ugly rise if you can't put a level between 20K and 30K, so you need the 24K (25K would require 500's for the small blind of 12.5k).

To run off chips during breaks only, you can do this:

Run levels 1, 2, and 3 (2k, 3k, 4k). Then take a short 5-minute break at 1 hr, and do last call for add-ons. You're at 1:05, after the break.
Then play the next five levels, 4-8 (5k, 6k, 8k, 10k, 12k.) Take a full 10-minute break and run off the 500. 1:05 + 1:50 = 2:55.
(You can actually start running off the 500 after the 1k level.)
Play the next five, 9-13 (16k, 20k, 24k, 30k, 40k). Take a full 10-minute break and run off the 1k. 2:55 + 1:50 = 4:45.
(You can actually start running off the 1k after the 24k level.)
Play the next three levels, 14-16 (50k, 60k, 80k). Pause the clock and take a 5-minute break when it goes heads-up, whenever that is. Good chance it ends during level 16, but if not, you've spent another 1:05 after the break, so 5:50 spent total.

After re-arranging for heads-up, either finish out the time on the previous level, or start on the next level up, your preference... and then play until finish.
Option: if you want to trim down the time, as soon as goes heads-up, jump straight to "Final Battle."

Just some thoughts...
 
Since virtually all casino tournaments use the 100% jump at some point, I find the jump acceptable here as well. Mr.Tree used a BGinGA structure at S@P 1 & 2 , and even though I don't like it, it doesn't suck. You just have to explain why it is there, every time. You get a puzzled look then things move on. I use a 25/25 in my home games, and new players always get confused. If you use a tournament manager, you have to have one that is fully editable, otherwise it will give you the wrong SB (or wrong BB).

Point is, the 1st level means very little in the grand scheme anyway, whether it's a 50% jump or a 100% jump. As the tournament progresses and chips stacks start getting swallowed up by the blinds, I like to flatten the blind increases, and making up the difference both earlier when the blinds are small compared to chip stack, and then again, after the bulk of players have been KOed, so the surviving players all have more BB in their stacks on average.

upload_2015-12-11_16-10-53.png


In this graph, the X axis shows the number of players knocked out, the Y axis the level of the KO. The spike at level 9 is because that is the last chance to rebuy (do not have to be felted, but you surrender any chips you have in play). The spike at level 12 was more prominent, so I slowed down the blind increases. As a host that tracks when players are KOed, this makes bookkeeping a little easier, and moving players/breaking down tables much easier.

Missing blind levels are breaks. You really have to suck to get KOed on break.

The structure that I'm using now:
25 25
25 50
50 100
75 150
100 200
125 250
150 300
200 400
250 500
300 600
400 800
600 1200
800 1600
1000 2000
1500 3000
2000 4000
2500 5000
3000 6000
4000 8000
5000 10000
7000 15000
10000 20000
 
virtually all casino tournaments use the 100% jump at some point

Agreed, and it's for a very simple reason -- the goal is to eliminate players more quickly so they can become available to spend more money elsewhere in the casino. It is certainly not because 100% increases are the most conducive way to promote and reward good poker play.

I find it poor decision-making on the part of tournament directors to mimic a flawed structure that can be easily and painlessly improved upon. To do so results in an avoidable injustice to the players.
 
And the goal of any tournament is to knock players out. I'd be willing to bet that the difference between a typical level 2 and your level 2 would not make any statistically significant difference.
 
My structure compared to other home games in the area ane daily casino structures is VERY rewarding for skill vs luck

While not perfect, my goal is to ensure everyone gets to play for a few hours, socialize and even lose a decent sized pot or two without being knocked out

Other home games allow you to buy back in for under 10 big blinds which is laughable. My add-on must be taken when you buy in. The only interuption to me during play is the first busted rebuy
 

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