How to adjust from 200bb to 100bb (29 Viewers)

[Natuie]

My groups home games have always been .5/.10 or .10/.10 $20 buy in so 200bb. Recently our last game upped the blinds to .25/.25.

Although I have been profitable at these home games, a $50 buy in is a huge jump from $20. Last home game I bought in for $25 100bb. $50 is a lot of money for a uni student and I'm not prepared to fire multiple bullets like I am with a $25 stake.

Obviously I need to adjust my game to play less aggressive with 100bb. Is there any other tips people could recommend adjusting from 200 to 100bb? Keep in mind, most of the table is playing with 200bb.

 

[Phoe9x]

At 200bb, hands with implied odds go up in value. Think suited connectors, since when all the money goes in, a straight or flush is usually the winner. A single pair doesn’t usually win when you go all in at 200bb.

At 100bb, you don’t usually get the right implied odds to make those hands worth playing. So those hands go down in value, while high cards and pocket pairs go up in value. So you’d love to get it all in preflop with pocket pairs and broadway cards since those hands can easily win on a lot of boards.

Think of it like you can play more streets with a larger stack, so you only want to put in all your money when you have really good hand. With a shorter stack, you’re fine getting all in with a pair.

 

[Natuie]

At 200bb, hands with implied odds go up in value. Think suited connectors, since when all the money goes in, a straight or flush is usually the winner. A single pair doesn’t usually win when you go all in at 200bb.

At 100bb, you don’t usually get the right implied odds to make those hands worth playing. So those hands go down in value, while high cards and pocket pairs go up in value. So you’d love to get it all in preflop with pocket pairs and broadway cards since those hands can easily win on a lot of boards.

Think of it like you can play more streets with a larger stack, so you only want to put in all your money when you have really good hand. With a shorter stack, you’re fine getting all in with a pair.

Thanks for the response that makes sense.

What hands should I still be playing then? Should I play suited aces or mid suited connectors like 78s 89s or 9Ts? What about suited kings, queens and jacks?

Also I like to play 3 bet or fold strategy when the times right. Should I avoid this and result to just flatting as stacks aren't as deep? Or should I continue the aggressive strategy?

Also sorry if I've asked a stupid question I'm new to poker theory and am just trying to learn and improve.

 

[Phoe9x]

No worries. Poker is a complex game. Tell us about the group you normally play with. Do they always limp preflop? Do they open 3-5x preflop?

If they always limp and are not very aggressive, your good hands (suited aces, broadway cards, 6s+) knowing they’re never going to raise you and you should have a stronger range on nearly every flop since they might be limping in with almost any two cards.

If they open up, then start looking at some charts to see how you should play. If they 3 bet often (highly unlikely) then that’s a great place to start. If they just open and never 3 bet, you can call and 3 bet with a slightly wider range.

One YouTube channel I’ve found really helpful is hungry horse poker. He breaks down poker concepts really well. It takes a lot of rewatching to fully grasp it but it’s great for learning exploitative over GTO which is usually more profitable for live poker.

 

[Natuie]

There's occasionally limps but not too often. Most hands there's a raise preflop but in my opinion the players are way too sticky and loose. They call with low suited kings and queens. They play connected unsuited cards like 67 or 78. They play low suited connectors like 45s.

Opening amounts differ in a weird way. At the start of the night it's usually 3-5x. I use the 3 blinds + x limps strategy. Towards the end of the night when rebuys have increased the amount on the table opens can get much bigger up to 7 or 8x at times which is ridiculous. Some players even open large at the beginning of the night. They just have no clue about sizing.

I think my biggest problem in my current game is what to do when I'm faced with a raise or open with specific hands. I'm often unsure when to raise, call or fold decent hands, especially when faced with a 3 bet raise against me. What hands should I generally 4 bet and what should I flat?

 

[DrStrange]

First off - we need to know how the table "respects" the stakes. Are the villains treating this change as a big deal? Did they change their game? Is hero unique in keeping his $25 buy-in or did the rest of the table go to $50 buy-ins?

Second - I am assuming Hero is a small winner or break even or small loser in this game. If hero crushes the game, the stakes change is less of an issue.

The shorter the stack, the more valuable "top pair" type hands become - e.g. big ace and big pair hands. Conversely, speculative hands decline in value - e.g small pairs, connectors, A-rag suited.

I see no reason for hero to change his aggression levels solely due to 100bb vs 200bb. Hero's reaction to situations will change with stack size. But even more so, Hero's decisions depend on relative stack sizes. If hero is short stacked and playing a shorter stack style when the table is playing deep, hero might find a tighter but even more aggressive style works well.

Also - Hero has to be flexible as his stack size evolves. Buying in for 100bb and then winning a few hands will bring Hero's stack size more in line with the rest of the table or even make him the deep stack.

Bottom line, Hero needs to be having fun. If the money gets to be a stressor, Hero will need to decide if it is worth it to continue -=- DrStrange

 

[nickmate]

There's occasionally limps but not too often. Most hands there's a raise preflop but in my opinion the players are way too sticky and loose. They call with low suited kings and queens. They play connected unsuited cards like 67 or 78. They play low suited connectors like 45s.

Opening amounts differ in a weird way. At the start of the night it's usually 3-5x. I use the 3 blinds + x limps strategy. Towards the end of the night when rebuys have increased the amount on the table opens can get much bigger up to 7 or 8x at times which is ridiculous. Some players even open large at the beginning of the night. They just have no clue about sizing.

I think my biggest problem in my current game is what to do when I'm faced with a raise or open with specific hands. I'm often unsure when to raise, call or fold decent hands, especially when faced with a 3 bet raise against me. What hands should I generally 4 bet and what should I flat?

Re your question on what to do with specific hands - have a look at some preflop charts from either GTO Wizard on your web browser. I use the app “Poker Trainer” or you could also try the “GTO Ranges” app by red chip poker, both apps provide free preflop charts.

These ranges are a good basis to refer to and the charts basically tell you what you ‘should’ do with each hand in each position vs other players actions, ie which hands to 4bet when facing a btn 3bet vs hj. Keep in mind these are online cash charts where you don’t typically have multiple limpers and are facing normal sized raises.

It’s very hard to for someone to suggest what adjustments you’ll need to make from these ranges as it heavily depends on the dynamics of your game. Not a hard and fast rule but in general I find players who over vpip tend to under 3bet - this is to say their 3bet range is tighter/stronger than usual. So I would be less inclined to defend with calls and potentially exploitively overfold against preflop aggression until you have a good feel of how your opponents are constructing their 3/4bet range.

Good luck!

 

[demonnic]

+1 for the GTO Ranges app by Red Chip, it's built for 100b with some exploitative node blocking thrown in which is nice. Makes a decent starting point for constructing your ranges.
If you sign up for their training site you get access to more charts, including the charts adjusted for live play. And their training is specifically targeted at 100bb play. If you're particularly dedicated you could get through the content in a week and only spend $5 on it while you copy down the charts for study. They also have a free discord you can join for doing hand analysis and such if you're inclined in that direction.

I'm not affiliated with them or anything, but I've used their site and found it to be one of the better ones out there and I do idle in their discord to read the hand analyses and such.

 

[Natuie]

First off - we need to know how the table "respects" the stakes. Are the villains treating this change as a big deal? Did they change their game? Is hero unique in keeping his $25 buy-in or did the rest of the table go to $50 buy-ins?

Second - I am assuming Hero is a small winner or break even or small loser in this game. If hero crushes the game, the stakes change is less of an issue.

The shorter the stack, the more valuable "top pair" type hands become - e.g. big ace and big pair hands. Conversely, speculative hands decline in value - e.g small pairs, connectors, A-rag suited.

I see no reason for hero to change his aggression levels solely due to 100bb vs 200bb. Hero's reaction to situations will change with stack size. But even more so, Hero's decisions depend on relative stack sizes. If hero is short stacked and playing a shorter stack style when the table is playing deep, hero might find a tighter but even more aggressive style works well.

Also - Hero has to be flexible as his stack size evolves. Buying in for 100bb and then winning a few hands will bring Hero's stack size more in line with the rest of the table or even make him the deep stack.

Bottom line, Hero needs to be having fun. If the money gets to be a stressor, Hero will need to decide if it is worth it to continue -=- DrStrange

I would say the table respects the stakes at $50. The play is more sensible than the previous $20 buy in however the table is not afraid to get it all in. At the last game there was 7 or 8 players. Me and one other player bought in for 100bb while the rest bought in for 200bb.

Overall I'm up about $100 all time from our $20 buy ins. I've not been trying to profit and have just been playing for fun but as stakes increase I want to feel I know what I'm doing with my money and how to play effectively and smart if that makes sense.

I understand now that 'drawing hands' are less valuable when playing 100bb effective but how should I adjust my play for multiway pots with opponents with 200bb. This is a common occurrence in our home games. Players often make a reasonable raise or 3bet and everyone calls as they're "priced in" with shitty hands.

Also should I try 4 bet more often in these pots to get heads up? This would obviously widen my 4 bet range. Or should I over fold instead and wait for a premium?

Anyway thanks for the advice everyone, I downloaded red chip and am going to have a look at it.

 

[Tight_Lay_DOWN]

I think if I’m reading this right, 100 big blinds at these limits in my opinion requires more aggressive play than less aggressive play. With multiple callers and considering stack to pot ratio so out of whack, the average style of play for this big blind level is stomp and go.

I don’t do the GTO thing, but you can play pre-flop any pair, although I would recommend fives and higher, but that’s for another discussion, you can play any suited Ace, and ace 10 off suit and higher most Broadway cards, be careful be careful king 10 unsuited King Jack unsuited King queen unsuited and you can try to get in with your queen Jack suited queen ten suited and I would recommend staying away from Ace nine unsuited and picking up your A5 unsuited and lower, for a call. And stay away from queen jacks unsuited if you can.

At that blind structure and buyin amount (those limits) your preflop holdings are a predominant monster and you should be aggressive, aggressive, aggressive, coming out, raising strong with any of these and if it’s already been raised, you will be raising with all of these hands to get the money on the flop if you hit flop and improve, and if you miss and have overs or a pair on a low board, you will be looking to push all in 30 percent of the time.

This is just a thought, anyway, as I always say, your mileage may vary…

 

[FestiveKnight]

A lot of good strategic thought here, but I will also challenge the basic premise a bit. You said "I'm not prepared to fire multiple bullets like I am with a $25 stake." While I think its important to only play in a game where you can comfortable reload several times to balance out variance, another option for you is to still buy in for 200BB but then fire less bullets overall. Make the adjustment in your bankroll management, not in your entire play pattern. The former seems like the simpler adjustment

 

[Taghkanic]

100BB is still decently deep. It’s when you get knocked down to less that some implied odds combos become a lot less valuable.

You might want to just be prepared to top off back to 100BB regularly as needed. Then you can play more like you did at 200BB without as many adjustments.

 

[Tight_Lay_DOWN]

That’s a great thing about strategy, It’s all a matter of perspective. But that perspective can be analyzed. If you have one of the starting hands I mentioned and it’s already raised in front of you to 3 to 5 bigs, like you stated is an average raise, You’re also going to be raising it at least 2X their raise or 3x the raise or in other words you will be raising 6 bigs minimum, but more likely 8 to 12 bigs on top of that and if you get a caller you’re looking at 24 bigs in there plus whatever else is in there from the blinds. If you get a second caller then their is 36 bigs in the pot and if you started with 100bigs you only have 75 - 64 bigs remaining,,(if you started with less than 100 bigs you are now more priced into to shoving or betting for SPR) either way you are still betting flop if you hit the flop and if you miss you still have so fold equity by betting.


If bet in front of you and you hit the flop, you shove for anything remaining, and if you have better than the flop, you shove and if you have 2 over cards than the flop, you call about 30 percent of the time.

I don’t know, just some thoughts…

Either way, let us know how it works out.

 

[Natuie]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I want to construct ranges using gto and red chip as my next step to improve. Are ranges always done by position or can I do it in 3/4 sections of EP, MP and LP or EP, MP, LP and blinds? I just think it'll be easier to learn and memorise as a starting point

 

[Phoe9x]

Realistically, no one at those stakes is playing GTO, so you can pretty much do it in sections like you said.