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How to introduce omaha/limit games to players? (2 Viewers)

thetikiking

thetikiking

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My group plays exclusively texas holdem during our poker nights. They all are familiar with 5-card draw (but likely unfamiliar with the betting limits sometimes associated with it) and certainly have never played PLO, Razz, stud, or other variants. Anyone have experience on bringing those games into the mix?
 
If I'm hosting, I like to offer Dealer's Choice, and then whenever its on me we play a basic variant: stud, draw, omaha, etc. I wouldn't use that as a time to go nuts and call a crazy circus game, but this is how to slowly show them different games. At this point my players are pretty comfortable with those games, but it took some time.

Limit wise, its much easier the first few times: hey guys, this is a weird new game so instead of no limit, we can only raise X in the beginning and 2X after whatever street.

They may hate it, or you may have some players asking you how the game was dealt and wanting to call it themselves. I wouldn't advise hosting an Omaha only night or something. I definitely would keep splitpot games far away for the beginning, beginners have lots of trouble thinking in a splitpot manner, it would be good for your wallet but bad for the health of the game.
 
Do it one at a time. Fixed limit betting is certainly a lot easier than pot limit. My group had a hard time remembering that the betting goes up, so I got in the habit of saying 'the minimum bet is now X' when the turn was dealt. Deal a sample hand that's checked down to the river the first time you introduce a game so people have some feel for it. Introduce low games after they've got a little mixed game experience.

Maybe pick 4 games to rotate at first, and play each for at least an orbit before switching. After you've played an orbit of each you can let players take turns choosing the next orbit.

1. Hold Em or variant (pineapple, etc.)
2. Omaha hi-only (make sure you stress they need to use 2 hole cards)
3. 5 or 7 stud (7 is better, 5 is quicker)
4. Some kind of drawing game (I hate 5 card draw but people know it. 2-7 triple draw and Badugi aren't too tough to learn though)

For beginners I'd just play them all fixed limit with the same small and big bets. 7-stud is probably the most confusing with antes/bring-in and an extra round of betting. Technically you could play small blind big blind stud but that's pretty nonstandard. But hey, your game your rules.
 
springbox said:
Do it one at a time. Fixed limit betting is certainly a lot easier than pot limit. My group had a hard time remembering that the betting goes up, so I got in the habit of saying 'the minimum bet is now X' when the turn was dealt. Deal a sample hand that's checked down to the river the first time you introduce a game so people have some feel for it. Introduce low games after they've got a little mixed game experience.

Maybe pick 4 games to rotate at first, and play each for at least an orbit before switching. After you've played an orbit of each you can let players take turns choosing the next orbit.

1. Hold Em or variant (pineapple, etc.)
2. Omaha hi-only (make sure you stress they need to use 2 hole cards)
3. 5 or 7 stud (7 is better, 5 is quicker)
4. Some kind of drawing game (I hate 5 card draw but people know it. 2-7 triple draw and Badugi aren't too tough to learn though)

For beginners I'd just play them all fixed limit with the same small and big bets. 7-stud is probably the most confusing with antes/bring-in and an extra round of betting. Technically you could play small blind big blind stud but that's pretty nonstandard. But hey, your game your rules.
Click to expand...
The only time I've every actually enjoyed 5-card is with wild cards... which is fun for a casual game but irritating if you're trying to play seriously.
 
TheRealTeddyKGB said:
Double-Board PLO Bomb Pots!!!
Click to expand...
This.

My crew got off Hold'em Island with (single-board) Omaha bomb pots.

After a while, especially when we got shorthanded, people started asking if we could do Double Board Omaha, Double Board Hold'em, and now a long list of much more complex games.

It helps a lot that bomb pots start off with a bloated pot ($1 antes from everyone instead of $0.25/0.50 blinds) and skip the preflop action. It makes luck more of an influence than if we were playing these games normally, which helps give newer players more of a fighting chance—so they're more likely to win some pots and feel good about the game.
 
Many years ago, I wanted to introduce HORSE to my exclusively no-limit hold'em players (cash game, 25c/50c). We played approximately monthly at the time. The very first thing I did was plan a cheap PLO hi only sit n go that should get down to the top three within a couple hours. We payed out the top three spots based on chip stacks. Then we moved to our normal hold'em game for the rest of the night.

This allowed the players to get familiar with omaha for a fixed (cheap) buy-in.

Most of my players are older and grew up playing wild card, stud based games with their family. The next month I hosted, we took the first two hours to play 7 card stud (hi) and then razz... an hour each. Both games, limit, $2/$4 betting. After the first two hours, we moved on to our regular NLHE game.

The next month, the first two hours were stud eight and O8... both limit. Then on to NLHE. At that point, I had introduced all of my players to each of the games in HORSE.

The following month, I hosted two games. The first was an entire night of limit, $2/$4 HORSE. Everyone enjoyed it. The next game that month was our normal NLHE game, except we played the first two hours of 5c/10c PLO.

We continued this process for a few years... playing a couple HORSE nights a year. On the Hold'Em nights, I would introduce a new game at the start here and there. 2-7 Triple Draw, Badugi, SOHE, short deck hold'em, Drawmaha. Eventually, the HORSE game grew into an 8 or 10 game mixed. We still do that a couple times a year.

Basically, the gist is to introduce your players slowly and as cheaply as possible.
 
Shaggy said:
Many years ago, I wanted to introduce HORSE to my exclusively no-limit hold'em players (cash game, 25c/50c). We played approximately monthly at the time. The very first thing I did was plan a cheap PLO hi only sit n go that should get down to the top three within a couple hours. We payed out the top three spots based on chip stacks. Then we moved to our normal hold'em game for the rest of the night.

This allowed the players to get familiar with omaha for a fixed (cheap) buy-in.

Most of my players are older and grew up playing wild card, stud based games with their family. The next month I hosted, we took the first two hours to play 7 card stud (hi) and then razz... an hour each. Both games, limit, $2/$4 betting. After the first two hours, we moved on to our regular NLHE game.

The next month, the first two hours were stud eight and O8... both limit. Then on to NLHE. At that point, I had introduced all of my players to each of the games in HORSE.

The following month, I hosted two games. The first was an entire night of limit, $2/$4 HORSE. Everyone enjoyed it. The next game that month was our normal NLHE game, except we played the first two hours of 5c/10c PLO.

We continued this process for a few years... playing a couple HORSE nights a year. On the Hold'Em nights, I would introduce a new game at the start here and there. 2-7 Triple Draw, Badugi, SOHE, short deck hold'em, Drawmaha. Eventually, the HORSE game grew into an 8 or 10 game mixed. We still do that a couple times a year.

Basically, the gist is to introduce your players slowly and as cheaply as possible.
Click to expand...
That's a really good idea -- maybe as folks trickle in, get like a quick SNG tourney for Omaha or Limit draw just to get people acclimated. Thanks!
 
We have tried many circus type games, but not everyone of my regulars were on board with many of them.
We have 8 players each session, and we do dealers choice, limited to 3 games, hold'Em pineapple, and Omaha.
It's a usual split of 70% holdem, 25% pineapple and 5% Omaha.
I play at another table where it's 85% Omaha, 10% pineapple and 5% holdem.

When we introduced new games, we would have mock hands prior to the actual night starting, just so those unfamiliar could get a sense of liking or not.
 
Last edited:
thetikiking said:
My group plays exclusively texas holdem during our poker nights. They all are familiar with 5-card draw (but likely unfamiliar with the betting limits sometimes associated with it) and certainly have never played PLO, Razz, stud, or other variants. Anyone have experience on bringing those games into the mix?
Click to expand...
I host FL mixed games all the time. It took a while but I can finally fill a table every other week.

What you need is a core group of players who are already familiar with those games. Basically, you're going to need to start a new player group.

Then host a super low stakes game with the mixed player group and invite the holdem players as an opportunity to learn. Bring food and drinks in and make it super friendly - give players every opportunity to ask questions and get comfortable - and encourage the experienced players to table their hands and explain the logic and strategy and how it differs from holdem.

I started with 6 or 7 core mixed players... now I have a list of about 20 or so who look forward to the bi weekly games.
 
4SUMERZ said:
We have tried many circus type games, but not everyone of my regulars were on board with many of them.
We have 8 players each session, and we do dealers choice, limited to 3 games, hold'Em pineapple, and Omaha.
It's a usual split of 70% holdem, 25% pineapple and 5% Omaha.
I play at another table where it's 85% Omaha, 10% pineapple and 5% holdem.
Click to expand...
That last table likes to GAMBOL haha
 
thetikiking said:
That's a really good idea -- maybe as folks trickle in, get like a quick SNG tourney for Omaha or Limit draw just to get people acclimated. Thanks!
Click to expand...
The key for me was to not go down to a winner... The reason I play a cash game is so that people aren't sitting around waiting. Ending the SNG when approx. half the players remain keeps the players that were knocked out from getting bored. Make sure you make it clear to the players that the purpose of the SNG is to cheaply get familiar with the new game... some players will lose a little and some will win a little.
 
I'd buy a big rubber fish from amazon, when they walk in the door, I would Scream at them, THIS IS MY SMACKEREL, then you smack them in the face and yell, PLO BITCHES!

Then 2 hours later when they start bitching about having 8 outs and missing, or floping the nuts and getting rivered, you remind them, its not as bad as the Smackerel.

The other less popular option is you deal everyone 5 cards to start, then you make them throw 1 away before the flop, after the flop and after the turn. Its holdem rules, but it gets them use to multiple cards. We call this game Thermo-nuclear Armageddon Pineapple. After an orbit of that, you play God's Game, which is double board Omaha. Everyone is going to feel a little overwhelmed. Then you say, okay we can dumb it down a little, and deal 4 card PLO, no one will complain because its an 'easy game'

Next time I'm going to have to charge for this kind of quality info...

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/how-should-i-introduce-plo-to-new-players.111001/post-2289397
 
I've tried just sprinkling in the occasional PLO and stud games into my poker nights and it's met with mixed reviews. I've got a few players that liked stud, a couple like PLO and the rest of players felt it was a waste of time to not be playing nlhe. It's a slow grind to get my group to open up to new things but we're getting there.
 
4SUMERZ said:
We have tried many circus type games, but not everyone of my regulars were on board with many of them.
We have 8 players each session, and we do dealers choice, limited to 3 games, hold'Em pineapple, and Omaha.
It's a usual split of 70% holdem, 25% pineapple and 5% Omaha.
I play at another table where it's 85% Omaha, 10% pineapple and 5% holdem.
Click to expand...
My crew goes about 75% Omaha and 25% Hold'em, before 10:00 (when bomb pots become dealer's choice instead of just Omaha).

After that it's about 95% Double Board Omaha, Brutal Scarney, 3-card Double Board Hold'em, and Keithington, and maybe a hand of normal Hold'em once or twice for the rest of the night.
 
Machine said:
I'd buy a big rubber fish from amazon, when they walk in the door, I would Scream at them, THIS IS MY SMACKEREL, then you smack them in the face and yell, PLO BITCHES!

Then 2 hours later when they start bitching about having 8 outs and missing, or floping the nuts and getting rivered, you remind them, its not as bad as the Smackerel.

The other less popular option is you deal everyone 5 cards to start, then you make them throw 1 away before the flop, after the flop and after the turn. Its holdem rules, but it gets them use to multiple cards. We call this game Thermo-nuclear Armageddon Pineapple. After an orbit of that, you play God's Game, which is double board Omaha. Everyone is going to feel a little overwhelmed. Then you say, okay we can dumb it down a little, and deal 4 card PLO, no one will complain because its an 'easy game'

Next time I'm going to have to charge for this kind of quality info...

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/how-should-i-introduce-plo-to-new-players.111001/post-2289397
Click to expand...
Had to mute myself on zoom. Thank you sir.

Going to buy my smackerel right now.
 
renegadegatorman said:
I've tried just sprinkling in the occasional PLO and stud games into my poker nights and it's met with mixed reviews. I've got a few players that liked stud, a couple like PLO and the rest of players felt it was a waste of time to not be playing nlhe. It's a slow grind to get my group to open up to new things but we're getting there.
Click to expand...
It is such a grind! I love NLH, but playing it back to back to back gets stale. I don't really get it -- i think it's just because what everyone is used to/ sees on TV.
 
Pineapple, then SOHE.

Star Wars Baby Yoda GIF by LEGO
 
thetikiking said:
....They all are familiar with 5-card draw (but likely unfamiliar with the betting limits sometimes associated with it) and certainly have never played PLO, Razz, stud, or other variants.
Click to expand...
That's really strange. I've never met anyone who's played draw without ever playing stud.
 
thetikiking said:
i think it's just because what everyone is used to/ sees on TV.
Click to expand...
I definitely think that's a big part of it. Like stud games don't seem as flashy when you're used to watching the final table of the WSOP.

Also what I've noticed at least with stud Is we only play it on my deal so at the most once an orbit and people don't really fold. They aren't playing it consistently enough to get torched by it and start playing more poker and less bingo.
 
thetikiking said:
It is such a grind! I love NLH, but playing it back to back to back gets stale. I don't really get it -- i think it's just because what everyone is used to/ sees on TV.
Click to expand...
That's pretty much the reason. It's what everyone sees on TV, what got them interested in the first place. Then they read books and watched videos, so they know how to play that. I'm an old guy, I cut my teeth on mixed games way before they started showing poker on TV. NLHE is a fun game, but yeah it gets old sometimes. I prefer a game with variety, inluciding circus games.
 
Just the tip, just for a second, just to see how it feels…

In other words, do it gently, or they will never let you do it again!

Tournaments are good way to introduce PLO (and other more high variance games) since the money they can lose is fixed. It gives them a chance to get an idea of hand strengths without losing a lot of money.
 
100% make the game go around the table back to the original dealer (an orbit). It gives each player the chance to deal it. It gives more people a chance to win at the game which is huge because if you call it once and they don't quite get it and lose, they'll just say they hate it.
 

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