Cash Game Interesting Ruling in Home Game. Thoughts? (1 Viewer)

[Trihonda]

Playing 1/2 NL 9 handed. Stacks all around $700 (plays like a 2/5). It's my first time at this game, but I've played with many of the players before, including the host.

Anyway, the ruling in question.

Preflop, one player is all in, three callers.

Flop comes, and one player checks (dealer, albeit slightly intoxicated) burns and turns an ACE, however, there are TWO players who didn't get to act.

Several people chime in (correctly IMHO) that you need to burn, lay out a river card (face down), then reshuffle the ACE into the deck, then await all action to close.

Host rules that no river will be dealt face down, that the ACE will simply get shuffled back into the deck and that the turn card will be dealt without a burn (since it already occurred), and that then the river will be dealt from the remaining cards in the deck.

Host's logic, that once the ACE was exposed prematurely, it would affect action, since people will know that it CAN NOT show up on the river.

Thoughts?

 

[Shaggy]

I agree with host. Waiting for someone else to find it in Robert's rules. Pretty sure host was correct.

 

[Payback]

From RROP:

Section 5 - Hold'em
4. If the dealer turns the fourth card on the board before the betting round is complete, the card is taken out of play for that round, even if subsequent players elect to fold. The betting is then completed. The dealer burns and turns what would have been the fifth card in the fourth card’s place. After this round of betting, the dealer reshuffles the deck, including the card that was taken out of play, but not including the burncards or discards. The dealer then cuts the deck and turns the final card without burning a card. If the fifth card is turned up prematurely, the deck is reshuffled and dealt in the same manner. [See “Section 16 – Explanations,” discussion #2, for more information on this rule.]

 

[BGinGA]

As payback referenced, the river card is dealt as the new turn card. The prematurely-exposed card is reshuffled into the deck stub, where it can still appear as the new river card.

Creates the least amount of disruption to the intended five board cards. At least four (and possibly all) will be what would have normally occurred.

The host's solution can create a situation where only three of the board cards dealt are what was intended.

 

[Jambine]

I agree. A good default decision point on these situations:
Maintain the integrity of the stub as close as possible to what it would have been if the were no error

 

[DrStrange]

I always hate a solution that leaves a board card exposed in a way that allows markings (if any) to be obvious. There are good reasons why we use burn cards, they forestall problems and discourage cheating.

However Robert's rules are explicit in this case.

 

[inca911]

I always hate a solution that leaves a board card exposed in a way that allows markings (if any) to be obvious.

After the betting has completed on the turn, the exposed card is put back into the stub, the deck is immediately cut, and the final river card is immediately dealt. This is no opportunity for anyone to have time to see the final river card before it is exposed, so the lack of an additional burn card after reshuffling and cutting is appropriate.

 

[abby99]

After the betting has completed on the turn, the exposed card is put back into the stub, the deck is immediately cut, and the final river card is immediately dealt. This is no opportunity for anyone to have time to see the final river card before it is exposed, so the lack of an additional burn card after reshuffling and cutting is appropriate.

Robert Ciaffone, author of RROP, agrees with this. This is from the explanation section of RROP for home games:

The portion of this rule saying the dealer does not burn a card on the redeal is misguided. It is much harder for the dealer to control the card to be dealt if a burn is required. The applicable sentence in the rule should read, “The dealer then cuts the deck, burns a card, and turns the final card.”
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RROP is a collection of the most common rules, not the rules that he thinks are best. He has some interesting thoughts on best practices in this section.