Looking for someone with experience installing Windows 10 on a Mac (1 Viewer)

[Gear]

Hi everyone

I'm looking for someone with experience to help me install Windows 10 on a 2008 iMac.


I have an older iMac (late 2008, OS X) on which I want run Tournament Director. There is no Mac version of TD, so I would like to install Windows 10.

I'm not an idiot (at least, not when it comes to computers!) I worked in several more-or-less IT jobs for a lot of years, supporting the OS and software on Windows servers and desktops, Mac desktops, and Apple mobile devices. I have built and configured lots of Windows machines for my own use.

So far:
I have tried to use Boot Camp to configure/create a USB stick to install Windows 10 (edited the .plist file to include the iMac model and allow Windows 10) which seems to have worked, but I cannot get the iMac to actually boot into Windows Setup from the USB stick. (I can select "EFI Boot" for the USB stick on the Mac boot-selection screen, but the furthest it gets is a black screen with a flashing cursor.)

I don't need to preserve anything on the Mac, so installing nothing-but-Windows on the hardware would be OK. In other words I don't need Boot Camp or the option to boot back into OS X. That said, I have tried making a Windows installer on a DVD-R, but that didn't get far either (same black screen / flashing cursor.) I suspect it might work better if I created it on a Windows machine, but I don't have a Windows machine with an optical drive anymore. The only DVD reader/writer I have is the SuperDrive in the iMac itself.


Please note regarding other suggestions:
* I know about Parallels but I don't really want to go that route. I basically never use the iMac for anything else, so I don't need the ability to move things between operating systems. Also the hardware is old and slow, so making it run MacOS plus Parallels plus Windows plus the TD app would probably make it even more of a pig. Also Parallels isn't free.

* I know I could just buy/use any old Windows machine, but I want to use the iMac if at all possible because (A) I already have it, and (B) it looks nice. I don't need a separate monitor and the accompanying cables, and it's just overall a tidier look. (Side note: this machine is just old enough that it's not possible to use it as a monitor for another machine. Apple started allowing that only after this model came out.)

* I know there is (probably) other tournament software out there that does have a Mac version. I want to stick with TD because I already have a license for it, and I have already invested time in designing screen layouts, player lists, blind structures, etc.

* I know how to use Google, and believe me, I have. There are a bazillion web pages out there that go over all the gory details of the easy parts, but quietly skip over the troublesome bits (like where I'm getting stuck now) and/or they are irrelevant or worse.


Any Mac/Windows crossover experts out there?

Thanks!

 

[inca911]

i offer moral support!

 

[Colquhoun]

I used boot camp years ago, but was turned off by the space needed, partitioning, and needing to do a full windows install.

For smaller apps, I’ve had ok results using Wine. It emulates Windows and basically makes the app think it’s on a PC. You do have to create what Wine calls a “bottle”, then your software gets installed into that. It doesn’t run any big apps very quickly, and not perfect for all situations.

However, it’s free, with a small footprint.

 

[cpiaaq]

Just guessing but you might need a “legacy” boot here vs an EFI boot. What version of Mac OS are you working with?

 

[Gear]

I used boot camp years ago, but was turned off by the space needed, partitioning, and needing to do a full windows install.

For smaller apps, I’ve had ok results using Wine. It emulates Windows and basically makes the app think it’s on a PC. You do have to create what Wine calls a “bottle”, then your software gets installed into that. It doesn’t run any big apps very quickly, and not perfect for all situations.

However, it’s free, with a small footprint.

Hmm, that's worth checking out. I think I initially dismissed the idea because TD depends heavily on Windows' Internet Explorer DLLs -- or at least, it used to. I don't know for sure whether it works or not, so I should try it.

Thanks!

 

[Colquhoun]

Hmm, that's worth checking out. I think I initially dismissed the idea because TD depends heavily on Windows' Internet Explorer DLLs -- or at least, it used to. I don't know for sure whether it works or not, so I should try it.

Thanks!

Ahh, I didn't realize TD used that. Fingers crossed and good luck!

 

[dkellerd]

Have you read thru all the similar Reddit threads about others attempting this? If not, I found some good ideas to try by googling this string…but they may not apply to you. Hard to tell without further info.


blinking cursor win 10 mac bootcamp install site:www.reddit.com

 

[TheOffalo]

Other potential sources, if you haven't come across them yet @Gear:

https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/60dvky/installing_windows_10_on_2008_imac_without/
https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/frwue2/guide_how_to_install_windows_10_on_a_late_2006/

https://www.sysgeeker.com/install-windows-10-on-mac-without-bootcamp.html

Edit: PCF is converting the reddit links to an embeded "media", so I put it in code tag. Copy/paste the URLs.

 

[CdnBeerLover]

Have you tested the USB stick on another machine to confirm that it is configured to be a bootable drive? The description sounds a lot like a USB drive that is missing a bootloader.

 

[Gear]

Just guessing but you might need a “legacy” boot here vs a EFI boot. What version of Mac OS are you working with?

Yeah, I think that's where I was going with making a bootable thing on Windows, but some of the things I read implied that legacy boot is what was causing the black screen cursor result? To be honest I worked on this intermittently for roughly a week, about a month ago, and don't quite remember all the exact details / steps I took. I set it aside in the hopes that fresh eyes would see things more clearly.

To answer your question: the Mac is running OS X El Capitan 10.11.6 (and afaik, can't be upgraded further.)

And I misspoke earlier -- it's an early 2008 iMac, not late 2008. Model identifier is iMac8,1

 

[TheOffalo]

Have you tested the USB stick on another machine to confirm that it is configured to be a bootable drive? The description sounds a lot like a USB drive that is missing a bootloader.

I've been reading that the 2008 iMac does not support booting (Windows only?) by USB, not sure if true.

 

[Gear]

Have you tested the USB stick on another machine to confirm that it is configured to be a bootable drive? The description sounds a lot like a USB drive that is missing a bootloader.

Not exactly. I junked around with a bunch of bootloader types, Rufus etc but nothing worked at all. That was part of the reason I tried a DVD-R, since it's a little unusual to boot a Mac from USB (especially an older Mac) but it shouldn't be odd to boot from DVD.

 

[Gear]

I've been reading that the 2008 iMac does not support booting (Windows only?) by USB, not sure if true.

As I recall, I found some articles/posts that said that, but others that said it does work. Also part of the reason I tried with a straight-up DVD-R, but I can't tell if that works either (because I don't have an optical drive that isn't in the Mac.)

 

[cpiaaq]

USB booting isn't an issue for OS X 10.11

This page indicates it's not possible on your hardware. You should be able to install windows 7, and do an in-place upgrade to 10 if desired.

 

[Eriks]

 

[Gear]

Welp, seems like Wine is going to do the trick. I haven't tested fully, but TD installs & runs OK. Thanks for the suggestion!

USB booting isn't an issue for OS X 10.11

Agreed, it's supposed to work, but I didn't have much success...

This page indicates it's not possible on your hardware. You should be able to install windows 7, and do an in-place upgrade to 10 if desired.

I'm not entirely convinced the problem is that I'm trying to install Windows 10 directly. I can't get the Mac to even launch Windows Setup. I would have thought it might start and THEN say nope sorry...? That said, I did hack the plist in Boot Camp so that it gives me the option. Obviously, hacking the plist doesn't suddenly make the hardware compatible, but I've seen a lot of situations where there is a definite distinction between what Apple wants you to do (or what they will allow you to do) versus what is actually possible or not. In other words, just because Apple says no doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't.

In any case, I'll give that a try (going Windows 7 first) since that at least colors within the lines, so to speak.

 

[nitzilla]

Hey @Gear
IT pro here, if Wine works for your needs, then great, but another option might be put a basic macOS install on it and then run VirtualBox (https://virtualbox.org). It is 'lighter' than Parallels or VMware.
Since it's from 2008, I assume the amount of RAM you have is 4GB, or 6GB if you know the right stick to buy, which doesn't give you much RAM for a VM in the first place....especially for Win 10..... you'd be better off running XP.....
If you run into any issues using Wine, let me know.
nitzilla

On a side note: I recently started playing with OpenCore Legacy Patcher, which is simply amazing, and has 'unlocked' older Macs from the macOS requirement as you can see from my "old" Mac Pro 2012 which should have stopped working at macOS 10.14 (Mojave) after I installed the Metal compatible graphics card, but here I sit with Monterey 12.2.1 (I know there's 12.3.1 just haven't updated) and 48GB RAM running on a PCIe NVMe 2TB SSD getting ~1500MBps R/W speeds.....

 

[Wifey]

View attachment 890278

i offer moral support!

IKR????
I too can only offer moral support.

 

[Machine]

I suggested VM Ware Fusion, @nitzilla seems to have a better handle on approach.

Again you could go with a bare bones system and dedicate it for your needs. I do get not being wasteful and repurposing equipment