Moxington & Archie Variants: Thoughts? (1 Viewer)

[Moxie Mike]

So if Moxington isn't ridiculous enough, we're working on some variants that might be interesting.

In case you're unaware, Moxington is a split pot double board game where the best 5 card Omaha Hi hand at showdown splits the pot and eliminates the board used to make the hand. The remaining board is then used to determine a winner for the other half of the pot in a 5-card super-holdem hand.

We've been playing it as part of our mixed game, FL rotation since May. Since leaving well enough alone isn't something we do, it's time to dream up some variants.

Moxington variants:

Challenge: 7-handed, Moxington requires 45 cards not accounting for burn cards. 8-handed, the game requires the entire deck.

My first thought was to add a draw after the flop action like in Draw2maha but the problem is there aren't enough cards in the stub unless you limit it to 6 players. And even then you can only draw 2.

Another idea I had was to have a round of discards preflop, then deal the flop and the subsequent betting round. After the betting round but before the turn card is placed, the player's cards are replaced by cards from the discard pile including preflop mucked cards. This preserves the stub and the integrity of the turn and river cards. You could also do this after the flop I suppose but seeing two flops before discarding probably is too much information.

Yet another idea was to conduct the draw in some fashion, but all replacement cards are dealt face-up to each player.

I heard about a few Archie variants that might be worth trying:

49: Similar to Draw2maha 49, with a qualifier of at least 35 points. Splits with the best poker hand.

Zero: Similar to Draw2maha zero, with a qualifier of 10 points or fewer. Splits with the best poker hand.

777: Pot is potentially split 3-ways: 7-low, badugi with a 7 or lower qualifier and best poker hand with trip 7s as a qualifier.

tagging @Jimulacrum, @GrindstonePoker & @Steppenwolf for perspective.

 

[detroitdad]

Nope

 

[Frogzilla]

I don’t have intuition about variants of Moxington which improve fun until I have played the original first

I hope to call at next meetup

Archie I have played so my thoughts on variants. And really depends on what you want to get out of the variants;

777: doesnt seem challenging, go low here and draw to 7 low hope to hit badugi and straight…might get stale. Maybe I’m missing some intricacy of a counter strategy when everyone else goes the route I describe but I think just drawing to high 1/3 of the pot isn’t profitable

0: keepers correlate too much with going high hand, just keep faces and aces, this one will be very straightforward draw strategy. Interesting things happen when OOP has the draw advantage of fresh cards (the recycled cards will be super garbage). Having exactly 6 players is probably preferred

49: seems “best” (which is surely subjective) of the posted variants as there are less two way hands

 

[Jimulacrum]

My first thought was to add a draw after the flop action like in Draw2maha but the problem is there aren't enough cards in the stub unless you limit it to 6 players. And even then you can only draw 2.

Another idea I had was to have a round of discards preflop, then deal the flop and the subsequent betting round. After the betting round but before the turn card is placed, the player's cards are replaced by cards from the discard pile including preflop mucked cards. This preserves the stub and the integrity of the turn and river cards. You could also do this after the flop I suppose but seeing two flops before discarding probably is too much information.

Yet another idea was to conduct the draw in some fashion, but all replacement cards are dealt face-up to each player.

I believe I have the medicine for your sickness, sir. Try rolling this feature into Moxington.

Swapping cards like this (ideally 1 or maybe 2 in a flop game) can add a really interesting twist.

Drawing a new card is great because duh.
Giving your discards to an opponent adds strategic depth.
Stub is unmolested, so this feature can be layered into any game that already fits the table size.

 

[Nymor]

I believe I have the medicine for your sickness, sir. Try rolling this feature into Moxington.

View attachment 1397418
Swapping cards like this (ideally 1 or maybe 2 in a flop game) can add a really interesting twist.

Drawing a new card is great because duh.
Giving your discards to an opponent adds strategic depth.
Stub is unmolested, so this feature can be layered into any game that already fits the table size.

We used to play Anaconda but it has slipped out of the normal games we do now. Our version, which could be the same?, is 7 cards, betting, pass 3, betting, pass 2, betting, pass 1, betting, showdown. It was this game where I had my first Royal vs Royal , and some months later had Royal v Royal again against the same player in 5 card double-board Omaha

 

[Moxie Mike]

Nope

Yaknow what Bill? You should drag your ass 2 hours westbound and join us on a Tuesday night sometime. Or on a weekend. LMK and I'll put together a special event for you

I don’t have intuition about variants of Moxington which improve fun until I have played the original first

I hope to call at next meetup

Archie I have played so my thoughts on variants. And really depends on what you want to get out of the variants;

777: doesnt seem challenging, go low here and draw to 7 low hope to hit badugi and straight…might get stale. Maybe I’m missing some intricacy of a counter strategy when everyone else goes the route I describe but I think just drawing to high 1/3 of the pot isn’t profitable

0: keepers correlate too much with going high hand, just keep faces and aces, this one will be very straightforward draw strategy. Interesting things happen when OOP has the draw advantage of fresh cards (the recycled cards will be super garbage). Having exactly 6 players is probably preferred

49: seems “best” (which is surely subjective) of the posted variants as there are less two way hands

I mostly agree on the Archie variants. A good friend and regular learned of these at the Mixed Game Festival at Bellagio this summer and suggested them. If the group doesn't like these, I'll just blame her

Glad to hear Moxington is on your radar - a few people I know have introduced it to their games... no one I know that's played it hasn't liked it.

I believe I have the medicine for your sickness, sir. Try rolling this feature into Moxington.


Swapping cards like this (ideally 1 or maybe 2 in a flop game) can add a really interesting twist.

Drawing a new card is great because duh.
Giving your discards to an opponent adds strategic depth.
Stub is unmolested, so this feature can be layered into any game that already fits the table size.

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't love the idea of forcing a player to break their hand in a 'screw your neighbor' format. I think if someone is fortunately enough to have been dealt a pat hand... they shouldn't have to draw.

I updated the slideshow to add the Archie variants and 'Drawxington' - draws are declared preflop and cards are replaced after the flop action but before the turn is placed ala Draw2maha. In the interest of fairness, if the stub doesn't support the number of required replacement cards, ALL draws will be filled from the discards.

If you care to check it out, it's here: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Dhocv9FnxsV0fwGy6r8a9fz9VFpYZW-ArF6D3VxWmP8/edit?usp=sharing

We'll see how it goes

 

[Moxie Mike]

Here's an update:

We played Archie Zero and Archie 49 this past week. Both were duds that will not be a part of the regular rotation. 777 was surprisingly more well received and generated a ton of action. 777 will be replacing Badacey in the rotation.

After that, we introduced a Moxington variant called 'Drawxington'. And it was a hit!

Drawxington is played with a preflop discard round (up to 3) where the replacement cards are dealt FROM THE PREFLOP DISCARDS after the flop action but before the turn card is placed. The replacement cards are dealt FACE UP for an extra dose of ridiculousness.

The very first hand was super interesting and the action was crazy. 6-handed everyone limped and one player discarded 3. After the flop action that player's replacement cards were 9-9-9!

Then the turn cards were dealt and one of them was a 9!

The river card ended up being a king and paired the board with the nine on it for a board of K-X-X-9-K. Someone made kings full, eliminating that board. Another player made queens full on the remaining board to win the holdem half of the pot.

All in all it was fun - the biggest issue is how long each hand takes to deal given all the moving parts.