Cash Game New Member Hello and Cash Game Advice? (1 Viewer)

[boujibud]

What’s up everybody! New member here and stoked to be in this forum. it has opened my eyes.. hopefully it wont open my wallet too much..

So, I would love some feedback/advice. My buddy and I are starting a weekly cash game. We’ve been running casually for about a month now out of his house on a shitty old table with abs slug chips that suck. We have a newly formed, semi solid group of about 8-9 guys, with connections to start bringing more in on rotation. We want to step it up, upgrade the table, and get a set of BRPRO chips with racks. I have the gear logistics covered, its the political side of this I need help with.

We’ve totaled about 1k in first expenses to get this going, and if my buddy and I are fronting the money for the gear, as well as committing every one of our Monday nights to setting up this game and running it at our place, it makes sense to us if we ask the other guys in the game to help pitch in for some of the cost. Especially given a couple of these guys are going to be consistently making money.

The idea we proposed was a $2 seat fee and a flat $1 rake for any pot over 120BB. This seems laughably small to me and would max average 5 dollars a player. We typically play .25/.50 with about 550-700 on the table. Also, we’re not expecting to get all of the 1k covered, hoping to get like $700 max over the course of 5 months or so.

We floated this idea to the group, and most of them saw the vision. A couple didn’t and felt like if we’re going to own the chips and table, we should be paying for them in total. Some of these relationships are very new, and now I’m worried that the beginnings of our lovely little game could be in demise as this made my friend and I look ambitious and snakey. It’s been difficult building a community so far and I’ve been really excited to finally find people to play with. We just want to make the gaming experience better and this was the first way we came up with.

Can I get feedback on if my buddy and I are approaching this correctly? Are you we in the wrong to want help recouping the cost and compensate us for the commitment? Has anyone been in a similar situation before?

Thank you and happy chipping!

 

[Mushmanchuman]

Hey man welcome to PCF! I’ll give you my 2 cents for what it’s worth. I have a small home game, played at many non-raked home games, casinos and some private games (raked home games).

-If this is just a bunch of your buddies and people you are aquatinted with I would not charge a seat fee or rake. It’s like buying a fishing boat and inviting your buddy then telling him it’s $10 to step on the boat every time.

-If this is a mix of friends and random card players that you recruit and you insist on taking a rake then you need to provide a great experience for the players. GREAT table, GREAT secure chips, comfy matching seats, a (semi) professional dealer, high hand jackpots, some type of secure environment, tons of free liquor and beer, free food and snacks, sportsball on multiple tvs, a massage girl…

You have to offer something for the players that you are taking money from. If you rake a game “just to make back your investment” I see that as wrong. If you rake because you want to run a sweet game and make money from it then you have to cater to the players. I’m not even showing up to a game with a rake unless I hear about all the bells and whistles before hand.

-The best way to make your money back is by winning hands playing poker. If you’re good enough you’ll make most your money back. And to be honest you guys are still on the lighter side of your investment. You should check out some of the home game set ups that dudes have on here. Tens of thousands of dollars in chips, tables, seats etc.

Back to the fishing boat analogy. If you buy a boat and you are an expert guide and take people to secret spots and help them catch monster fish. Then you should be charging for the service you are providing. You are taking someone on an awesome experience that is worth charging and you have earned the right to charge people. Think like that with the poker game. Are you an expert at running a game and have all high end stuff like I mentioned? Then yeah take a rake.

Long story short. No.

 

[ValueTown]

As a long time host. I don't take a rake (laws against it) but sometimes my players will leave a small tip or house donation at the end of the night. Ultimately, I know it'll be my expense to cover a poker night.

I have a folding poker table, majestic chips and copag cards. My wife usually makes a light snack and I offer any soda, water, or juice.

Places I've been that take a rake offer free beer, liquor, soda, a full meal.

Play well and use the bankroll for the most part.

 

[Nine_high]

I would just buy the gear. Then it is yours and remains yours regardless of what happens with the group. If you and one buddy are wanting to split it, then perhaps one of you buy the chips and the other buy the table, or what have you.

I wouldn't rake the game, not even temporarily, to recover this cost.

 

[yoke386]

Host a monthly game myself. Homemade high quality table. Automatic card shuffler, always provide snacks and beer. We order pizza and split the costs among the group.

I would agree with the comments above, use your winnings from playing in an un raked game to recoup your costs. I think with the size of your game charging for time and raking pots will destroy it and potentially lead to legal troubles.

Play for fun, become a winning player in your very frequent game. Upgrade your supplies as you can. The folks that play in it are happy with the setup you have, don’t charge them because you want to upgrade right away, just do it slowly over time.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Be proud of hosting. If I host people at my house for a fight payperview? Collect a few bucks, sure, its something you're consuming together, same with a meal, a shared experience. But if you're buying items that you want to use, its not fair to ask others to subsidize the purchase.

If you want to rake for profit? Do it, sure, assume the risk, not my place to tell you how to hustle, but I wouldn't do it under the guise of recouping costs for items that you wanted. Most of the players at my game would be equally happy with paper bicycle cards and the kitchen table, I was the one who wanted to upgrade.

 

[wickedwonka121]

Welcome. This topic comes up from time to time. Basically recouping costs is just not a good idea. Essentially that makes the gear community property. We have all invested 1000s because we choose this hobby. My group knows that and they appreciate it. At the end of the day, I do it because I'm a chipper and I want quality gear. Good luck and happy hunting.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Welcome. This topic comes up from time to time. Basically recouping costs is just not a good idea. Essentially that makes the gear community property. I have invested 1000s because it's my hobby. My group knows that and they appreciate it. At the end of the day, I do it because I'm a chipper and I want quality gear. Good luck and happy hunting.

Yeah but you bought those chips I was gonna buy so I disagree with whatever this comment is, I didn't even read it.

 

[wickedwonka121]

Yeah but you bought those chips I was gonna buy so I disagree with whatever this comment is, I didn't even read it.

If I took this attitude I would have a list of users a mile long. Eff all y'all!!!! Haha!

 

[Mushmanchuman]

I would just buy the gear. Then it is yours and remains yours regardless of what happens with the group. If you and one buddy are wanting to split it, then perhaps one of you buy the chips and the other buy the table, or what have you.

I wouldn't rake the game, not even temporarily, to recover this cost.

Yup and when you make back your money the chances you will stop raking is slim. Why would you stop? People show up and are fine with the rake. It’s easy money at that point.

You will more than likely find a reason to increase the rake. Your game will get bigger and you’ll feel justified increasing the rake. You add another dollar or two to the rake no biggie if the pots are huge. Then instead of $50 a night you make $150. Very hard to walk away from easy money.

Plus yeah to recoup the costs you’re just making all your pals buy your toys. Who does that? Buy your own shit, waste your own money on fun things, get in trouble with wife, sell fun things, rinse and repeat.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Very hard to walk away from easy money.

 

[maloviz]

What's the plan when one of your players has a really shitty night and decided they hate your rake and you have the cops come out to your place?

Are you going to continue raking and trying to make back your money for this equipment? Are you going to cut your loses and be left with all this equipment you can't use?

I agree with what most others have said. I think a rake is a bad idea for a friendly home game. If you're trying to start a side hustle by running an illegal underground game, I think it goes without saying that that is not a good idea.

Another point:
I remember seeing on another post similar to this one that once your players start helping pay for things like chairs, tables, chips, etc. They will feel entitled to use these things and entitled to your game.
If a hairy situation comes up and you don't want to invite a player back to your game, that could be pretty complicated if in their mind they've paid for a good chunk of your equipment.


If you're really profit driven and are hell-bent on making your money back I'd recommend instead doing these 2 things:
1.) Invite players that tip well.
2.) Play better poker than everyone you invite.

Just to clarify, I don't think either of these things make for a better game (You should be inviting FUN players and playing FUN poker). But if you just want to make your money back these things could help.

 

[boujibud]

Thanks everyone for such thought out and sincere responses. Pretty unanimous decision here and a lot of really good points that helped me reflect on the situation more. I really appreciate it.

I’m gonna scrap this plan and just make improvements to the game over time as its affordable to do so. I guess this gives me more time to wait and find a good cash set in the classifieds

cheers!

 

[boujibud]

Hey man welcome to PCF! I’ll give you my 2 cents for what it’s worth. I have a small home game, played at many non-raked home games, casinos and some private games (raked home games).

-If this is just a bunch of your buddies and people you are aquatinted with I would not charge a seat fee or rake. It’s like buying a fishing boat and inviting your buddy then telling him it’s $10 to step on the boat every time.

-If this is a mix of friends and random card players that you recruit and you insist on taking a rake then you need to provide a great experience for the players. GREAT table, GREAT secure chips, comfy matching seats, a (semi) professional dealer, high hand jackpots, some type of secure environment, tons of free liquor and beer, free food and snacks, sportsball on multiple tvs, a massage girl…

You have to offer something for the players that you are taking money from. If you rake a game “just to make back your investment” I see that as wrong. If you rake because you want to run a sweet game and make money from it then you have to cater to the players. I’m not even showing up to a game with a rake unless I hear about all the bells and whistles before hand.

-The best way to make your money back is by winning hands playing poker. If you’re good enough you’ll make most your money back. And to be honest you guys are still on the lighter side of your investment. You should check out some of the home game set ups that dudes have on here. Tens of thousands of dollars in chips, tables, seats etc.

Back to the fishing boat analogy. If you buy a boat and you are an expert guide and take people to secret spots and help them catch monster fish. Then you should be charging for the service you are providing. You are taking someone on an awesome experience that is worth charging and you have earned the right to charge people. Think like that with the poker game. Are you an expert at running a game and have all high end stuff like I mentioned? Then yeah take a rake.

Long story short. No.

Great analogy lmfao. In my situation, odds are I beach the boat on a reef and everyone has to eat stale almonds while I work on processing paypal refunds. Thanks for this perspective.

 

[4SUMERZ]

As someone that has a poker room in my house, a custom built table with decent no mold chips and good quality 100% plastic playing cards, I enjoy spending time with the 8-12 friends that play at my home. I offer free drinks and light snacks on the house.
I would never ask for a rake, nor do I expect anyone to donate any money towards the drinks or snacks. I made it clear that I do not expect them to bring snacks or drinks, but they seem to take turns doing it, in which I thank them.
The way I see it, I get to stay home to play poker where most have to drive 30 minutes to make the game.
I don't see spending a ton of money on playing chips, as my buddies never seem to care.
I decided on Jason's group buy Tina no mold Mirage chips that are the ticket for my poker room theme.

 

[springbox]

As others have said, there's a lot of reasons not to rake your home game.

-It becomes a legal issue. Running an unraked poker game among friends is legal or a gray area most places. Running a raked poker game without a license is illegal.
-You're the sole owner of the equipment. Why should people chip in for something they don't own?
-It puts people off. Even if the rake is below recurring costs, people might think you're doing something shady.

If you were to insist on recouping the costs, I think you'd want to form some kind of club or association. You could charge member dues for players, and have all the equipment be the property of the club. But then you're adding a whole lot of bureaucratic work (forming a club charter, maintaining purchase records, etc. etc.)

If you don't need the cash really badly, I think you'll get more out of the goodwill from not raking. If you do need the cash that badly, what the hell are you running a poker game for?

 

[upNdown]

No.
Do you try to get people to pay for your other hobbies? Of course not.
You’re not the first person to ask this question, so don’t take my terse response personally, but no!

I paid for my table and my chairs and my chips and my cards because I love poker. And it didn’t happen all at once. I started out with cheaper stuff, then bought nicer stuff when I had spare change. But bottom line, when I invite people to my home, I don’t charge them to use my stuff.

 

[boujibud]

As someone that has a poker room in my house, a custom built table with decent no mold chips and good quality 100% pladtic playing cards, I enjoy spending time with the 8-12 friends that play at my home. I offer free drinks and light snacks on the house.
I would never ask for a rake, nor do I expect anyone to donate any money towards the drinks ir snacks. I made it clear that I do not expect them to bring snacks or drinks, but they seem to take turns doing it, in which I thank them.
The way I see it, I get to stay home to play poker where most have to drive 30 minutes to make the game.
I don't see spending a ton of money on playing chips, as my buddies never seem to care.
I decided on Tina no mold Mirage chips that are the ticket for my poker room theme.View attachment 1235750View attachment 1235754

love the set up. frost zone is the best place to be

 

[KHarp1]

Just a +1 on the "no!"

If costs are an issue then there are ways around that, to some extent. Watch the classifieds, here, for sales of "Tina" chips, as that is one of the most economical ways to get "semi' secure chips. Get together with a couple of your buddies and build a table, you can probably build a nice one for a few hundred bucks... if you source your material responsibly.

Table and chairs are probably the most quickly noticed, and appreciated, improvements you can make. A few set-ups of plastic cards can be purchased inexpensively as well. Justin from Broken Arrow (vendor) can hook you up with cards and chips as well.

Maybe spring for mixers, water and snacks, and make it byob until things get going. Just my 2 cents

Edit:
Here's a link to a poker table that many here use, the Barrington fold up table:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...t-169-if-you-want-the-lighted-version.113075/

 

[Tonysquander]

Welcome to PCF and I agree with the majority, forget the rake, it is just going to create problems on multiple levels and is not worth the trouble.

 

[boujibud]

Just a +1 on the "no!"

If costs are an issue then there are ways around that, to some extent. Watch the classifieds, here, for sales of "Tina" chips, as that is one of the most economical ways to get "semi' secure chips. Get together with a couple of your buddies and build a table, you can probably build a nice one for a few hundred bucks... if you source your material responsibly.

Table and chairs are probably the most quickly noticed, and appreciated, improvements you can make. A few set-ups of plastic cards can be purchased inexpensively as well. Justin from Broken Arrow (vendor) can hook you up with cards and chips as well.

Maybe spring for mixers, water and snacks, and make it byob until things get going. Just my 2 cents

Edit:
Here's a link to a poker table that many here use, the Barrington fold up table:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...t-169-if-you-want-the-lighted-version.113075/

This! Thank you so much. Really stoked to be in this community because of people like you (and everyone else who all responded really honestly and soundly). Really appreciate it fr. I checked out those group buys and they look really sick and super affordable. Such a cool thing going down.

 

[exodus]

I see your location in Los Angeles and correct me if I'm wrong, but it's still illegal to rake a home game in California. You could pass it off as food fee or whatnot, but once you rake the game you are putting your game at risk. Also, your game is relatively small stakes, and raking it wouldn't be that profitable compared to the risk. I've spent too much on this hobby, but I've not once thought to recoup my cost. I just wanted to create the best experience for myself and my friends while we play poker and have fun.

 

[Lord_Foldemort]

Thanks everyone for such thought out and sincere responses. Pretty unanimous decision here and a lot of really good points that helped me reflect on the situation more. I really appreciate it.

I’m gonna scrap this plan and just make improvements to the game over time as its affordable to do so. I guess this gives me more time to wait and find a good cash set in the classifieds

cheers!

I think it is very wise of you to take the advice. I was in a similar position eight years ago where I wanted to upgrade from playing on the dining room table, but didn't have the money to do so. You would be shocked at how economical it is (if you can source the tools and not buy them yourself) to build a poker table. Theres a ton of great resources on this forum and on youtube for building poker tables. Additionally, the barrington mod thread is a super amazing option if you don't have access to tools and want to strike the middle ground between buying and building a table. My possibly unpopular opinion is that the table matters a lot more than the chips when building an amazing poker night.

 

[springbox]

I think it is very wise of you to take the advice. I was in a similar position eight years ago where I wanted to upgrade from playing on the dining room table, but didn't have the money to do so. You would be shocked at how economical it is (if you can source the tools and not buy them yourself) to build a poker table. Theres a ton of great resources on this forum and on youtube for building poker tables. Additionally, the barrington mod thread is a super amazing option if you don't have access to tools and want to strike the middle ground between buying and building a table. My possibly unpopular opinion is that the table matters a lot more than the chips when building an amazing poker night.

Haha, beyond having denominated chips in the right quantities everything else is more important from the guests perspective. The table, the seats, the cards, the drinks and snacks all rate higher. Chips are for the satisfaction of their collector.

 

[QuadNines]

As someone who considered all of the above, I came to the same conclusion. No rake, and no strong arming folks into "donating".... That said, Jumping in 100% on day 1 for great chips, tables, chairs and cards IS expensive. But there's no reason you can't take it slow. ChipRoom sales, Tina / Group Buys, etc. are all phenomenal ways to get what you eventually want at economical rates. Keep in mind too, that while your heart may "want" high end paulson's, your game may only need something less expensive... And lastly - check FB Marketplace for tables. You'd be shocked at some of the tables you will run across there if you are patient...

 

[SeanGecko]

As someone who considered all of the above, I came to the same conclusion. No rake, and no strong arming folks into "donating".... That said, Jumping in 100% on day 1 for great chips, tables, chairs and cards IS expensive. But there's no reason you can't take it slow. ChipRoom sales, Tina / Group Buys, etc. are all phenomenal ways to get what you eventually want at economical rates. Keep in mind too, that while your heart may "want" high end paulson's, your game may only need something less expensive... And lastly - check FB Marketplace for tables. You'd be shocked at some of the tables you will run across there if you are patient...

Found this one on offer up

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

As someone who considered all of the above, I came to the same conclusion. No rake, and no strong arming folks into "donating".... That said, Jumping in 100% on day 1 for great chips, tables, chairs and cards IS expensive. But there's no reason you can't take it slow. ChipRoom sales, Tina / Group Buys, etc. are all phenomenal ways to get what you eventually want at economical rates. Keep in mind too, that while your heart may "want" high end paulson's, your game may only need something less expensive... And lastly - check FB Marketplace for tables. You'd be shocked at some of the tables you will run across there if you are patient...

Got this beast from a divorce settlement in North Georgia, she couldn't get rid of it fast enough! Belongs to @Mondaynight now and I still miss it.

 

[Machine]

So I think Indy, the norm is to take a rake, everyone actually encourages it. I've only been to one other game that doesn't rake in IN. I know its also fairly common in MI.

I also know you've gotten your answer, but I thought I would give you some reassurance.

I spend a few thousand on my first set, and I went with BRPro, they are great to work with. I built my table and put a shuffler in it, I have more than a few thousand in it, not to mention chair costs. I also bought a CPC set, and have more than a few thousand in it, I run a .25/.5 game once a month, the largest cash out was 1300, the largest preflop pot was $180! I've never raked the game, however I do have a dealer and the guys do tip him.

With a shuffler and bomb pots and PLO, the rate of speed the guys play we might get 18 hands in an hour, call it 20. We play for 8 to 10 hours, I would be taking 2.5 buy-ins off the table, thats going to make a lot of people lose, and losing players isn't worth it.

I have a $200 budget for food, and I'm typically around 180. I can't stand to serve pizza, that's all anyone else does, in 2.5 years I've served an up scale pizza twice; I like to have a meal, we start early and eat first. I do have alcohol, beer, and soft drinks. I have music going and a large TV. This is the norm for a lot of members.

Some of the players will tip me and thank me for the meal and the time; Some players bring amazing deserts (@KHarp1) and pitch in beer or water. I will also say most of the guys won't understand why you would spend what you will end up spending on chips, and they will likely not enjoy them as much as you do, but when they play somewhere else, they will notice. It will also help you get invited to other games.

Happy chipping!