Cash Game No ante for stud games - drawbacks? (2 Viewers)

[bmacpoker]

We've slowly been working in some mixed games, but my group always reverts to NLH. We had a very successful NLH only night and now everyone is on board to have a mixed games night, which I will be hosting.

I'm sort of thinking out loud, say we did 1/2, would there be any drawback to just eliminating the ante and only having a 50c bring in for the stud variants? Realizing that my private group are not really nits, they want to bet and win hands, and they're not really the type to calculate dead money into their opening range and such.

 

[Santa123]

You can let the button put a $1 ante in alternative.

 

[bmacpoker]

You can let the button put a $1 ante in alternative.

I like that. Also less reminding people to ante (iirc the reason bb ante was adopted in the holdem world).

 

[SeanGecko]

Pick a sober guy to be ante police.

 

[bmacpoker]

Pick a sober guy to be ante police.

The policing isn't my concern, we'd be 5 or 6 handed and we're all friends. More concerned that the less comfortable half will hate to bleed off $1.50 minimum per orbit in games they play/understand the least. And likely more with bring ins.

 

[SeanGecko]

The policing isn't my concern, we'd be 5 or 6 handed and we're all friends. More concerned that the less comfortable half will hate to bleed off $1.50 minimum per orbit in games they play/understand the least. And likely more with bring ins.

Less policing and more "hey you forgot it" " oops sorry I'm 7 beers deep, my bad"
That was me tonight.

 

[bmacpoker]

Haha. Yeah, normally with our NLH games we do dealer deals, sb shuffles 2nd deck. But I'll act as dedicated dealer for our mixed games night, I won't have an issue tracking the antes.

In my head I think about how big our NL games play regardless of the blinds, I figured maybe eliminating the ante altogether instead of one too big or adding another small denom chip just for stud antes.

At this point I'm leaning towards rolling with 25c ante and seeing how it goes, but maybe offering the $1 button ante suggested above after feeling the room. I'm also going to do kill pots, and the ante won't increase for those, so it maybe balances out in the long run.

 

[OzzieJim]

I always play stud games with button ante. Obviously there's no "dealer" position so we just rotate a lammer for antes.

I use ante = small bet to keep it simple. There's probably some alternative that works better but I don't think anyone is really sweating it.

 

[tabletalker7]

I don't see anything wrong with "half a small bet" little blind and "small bet" big blind. You could use that and completely abandon the bring in bet. It also prevents people from not liking stud because "their first up card is always a deuce" and always getting stuck with that bring in bet.

 

[OzzieJim]

I don't see anything wrong with "half a small bet" little blind and "small bet" big blind. You could use that and completely abandon the bring in bet. It also prevents people from not liking stud because "their first up card is always a deuce" and always getting stuck with that bring in bet.

The blinds in Holdem are in the worst strategic position (acting first) and are made to pay the blinds to induce them to play despite that disadvantage.

Stud being a game of much greater information and a varied order of player action, forcing the player with the worst card to make a blind bet (the bring in) induces action from someone who would otherwise almost certainly fold in most cases.

While I'm sure in casual play it will make little to no difference, unlike the traditional bring-in in stud or the blinds in flop games, the "blind" player would actually not be at any inherent disadvantage beyond 3rd Street (if even then, presumably they get a final option on their blind that a bring in does not). They may well keep last position or the betting lead for the entire hand, and if their first upcard is strong, there will be little incentive to steal.

It also removes a strategic action insofar as not allowing the BI to complete as their action. I don't know if I have ever done this personally in a cash game but it is a legitimate tool when short in Stud 8 or to isolate with wired pairs in Stud High.

Removing the ante and keeping the bring in reduces a player's incentive to get involved with hands, but I think removing the bring-in fundamentally alters how the game is played. I think it would only be reasonable to do this if later street action also went by position and not by hand strength. At which point just play holdem.