Paulson Chip manufacturing question (4 Viewers)

[greatoz99]

When these type of chips show up, there are sometimes comments on the board that the chip is 'not as from the factory' because the little squares (crosshatching) on the clear cover don't line up with the square pattern in the body of the chip itself.

Could anyone with first hand knowledge confirm all of the steps in the REGULAR manufacturing of these types of chips?

I am guessing it is this, but I am hoping to get confirmation (or correction):

1. The 'clay' body is created with the mold imprinted and any inserts injected all the way through the body of the chip
1a. The center of the chip does NOT have the small square pattern (crosshatching) in circular center of the chip
1b. The center DOES have a 12 pointed star shaped recess
2. A white sticker is created with the logo, lettering, denomination and other printing
3. The sticker is cut into a 12 pointed star shape
4. The sticker is placed into the 12 pointed star shaped recess in the center of the chip.
5. A thin clear plastic film is cut into a 12 pointed star shape and placed on top of the sicker in the center of the chip. Not sure if any clear adhesive is used to 'keep it down' on the sticker
6. A circular die with a fine square shaped pattern is pressed down (with high pressure and/or heat) to imprint the square pattern (crosshatching) into both the clay and the clear plastic film at the same time.

Am I missing anything here?

(Photo courtesy of The Chip Guide)

 

[SteveEH]

Check out this post to learn more about compression molded clay chips (like Paulson):

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/teach-me-how-to-be-a-chipper.78607/#post-1606232

 

[greatoz99]

Wow, thank you so much for pointing me to that thread. I still have a lot of questions, but all that information is pretty incredible.

 

[upNdown]

Compression molded clay chips are created by (skipping some steps here) the inlay (including any overlay) being placed on top of the clay, and then the whole shebang is compressed between the two cups that make the mold. And for Paulsons, the cups will have a circle, larger in diameter than the inlay, that pushes the inlay deeper into the clay, creating a recess around the inlay. Thus, the inlay becomes part of the chip. But the inlay is actually embedded into the clay, at the bottom of a slightly larger recess that sits shallower than the shoulders of the chip. When somebody overlabels, they merely stick a thin label on top of the inlay, which will still sit inside this recess, and thus the label won't interfere with chips stacking flush on top of one another.
Any crosshatching on the chip are a feature of the mold. Paulson chips used to come with "textured" inlays, meaning the chip mold had crosshatching across the whole face of the chip, so when it was pressed together, the inlay became crosshashed too.
Textured inlays are no longer available for Paulsons. But people like them. So when people gouge inlays out of Paulson chips and replace them with their own custom labels, they often choose texured laminated labels. And I think this gets to your original point - the texture on their replacement lables will not match the crosshatching on the chip.
If you're trying to distinguish a chip with a replaced label from a chip with a factory inlay, look to the edges of the label. If, at the bottom of the recess, there is a perfectly smooth and flawless transition from label to clay, its a factory inlay. But replacement labels are never perfect like that. The biggest tell is that replacement labels almost always aren't thick enough to fill the secondary recess (which is left behind when either the original inlay is gouged out of the clay, or in the case of milling, when clay is drilled out of a chip to make room for a label.) So if you look closely at the edges of the label, you’ll see the label is sitting inside (and not quite filling) a second recess. With shaped inlay replacement, look around all the edges of the label - it will never fill that orginal shaped recess (which again, was created simply by pressing a shaped inlay into the clay, and then somebody tore it out) perfectly; you'll see some tiny gaps around the edges.

Here’s an original shaped inlay. Notice the inlay sits inside the larger diameter recess, but at the bottom of that recess, the inlay is flush with the surrounding clay.

Here is chip with a label replacement. Notice the crosshatching extends into the edges of the original recess. Then notice that the label is sitting inside (and not perfectly filling) that second artificial recess.

So look to the edges. They’ll almost always give it away.

 

[greatoz99]

Wow, this is great information, thanks for giving me more insight. Most of what you say makes complete sense in general. I am trying to see how to apply it to different situation.

The first question I have: is there some 'clear coat' or thin film of clear plastic over the paper inlay before it all gets compressed down into the clay (in the recessed circle) ? When you look at the first picture you have above, it doesn't look like the very center crosshatching is in the printed paper, it looks like there is a clear film above the paper. Maybe the inlay comes with a coating of clear plastic on top before it all gets compressed into the clay?

Next question: There was an auction this year where Showboat $100 molded chips were sold. If you look at the center it almost looks like the 12 pointed star recess was part of the mold itself (as opposed to being formed under pressure from the inlay being pressed into the clay). I have a few of these and they all have sharp, clear 12 pointed star indentations, none *appear* have an inlay scraped out from them. Any thoughts on how this could have been created?

Lastly here is a picture of a similar $100 Showboat chip (not mine) . What is interesting is that it appears that the clear layer (maybe the whole inlay of the clear + the paper) is "popping out" of the chip. And if you look closely the crosshatching of the inlay doesn't line up with the crosshatching of in the clay in the round recessed area. Almost like it was removed or popped out and was put back in without any attention to re-aligning it correctly.

Any thoughts on this one?

 

[upNdown]

is there some 'clear coat' or thin film of clear plastic over the paper inlay before it all gets compressed down into the clay

Yes, I think so, and I believe it has changed over the years. If you search for threads with instructions for murdering chips, you’ll find detailed information. But I believe that older style chip had a printed paper inlay on the bottom, and then a clear plastic or vinyl “overlay” on top of that. I’m no expert on that stuff; I’ve never killed chips.

If you look at the center it almost looks like the 12 pointed star recess was part of the mold itself

Nope. That shaped recess was created when the shaped inlay and overlay were pressed into the clay.

There are some guys now (or maybe it’s just one guy - @Gear ) who will actually cnc a shaped recess into a chip and then fill it with a shaped label, to create chips that look like shaped-inlay factory Paulsons. But what you are looking at is almost certainly the natural result of pressing a shaped inlay into clay.

Any thoughts on this one?
View attachment 1390512

Thoughts? Guesses? That picture, combined with your statement that you have a few without inlays, makes me wonder if there was a bad batch of chips, or a batch of chips that were put through some conditions, environment, chemical, or otherwise, that caused their inlays to fall out.
Something happened to that chip. Maybe the overlay somehow popped out and somebody tried to fix it?
Just guesses, I have no idea.
I will say that I’ve read where people have damaged older shaped inlays by either cleaning them too aggressively or oiling them too aggressively, and the liquids have seemed into the inlay. But that always caused staining - I can’t remember hearing where they popped out.
But @Gear probably knows more about this stuff than just about anybody, so let’s see if he chimes in with some thoughts.

 

[SteveEH]

Pic of the GOAT (cause they're mine) tribute set being made by ASM back in 2011: