PLO hand from the Lions Den (1 Viewer)

[krafticus]

So, I'm still learning the "intricacies" of the game, but the following hand happened last night. I have to admit, I was pretty tired and don't remember most of the fine details.

We are playing 6 handed $.25/$.50. Most stacks are close to even, ranging between $120 and $150 ish.

About half of the table have a good amount of PLO experience, with 3 still working on their game. On this hand, I believe hero is in the BB with Ks8s8c7c. Limps to the button, who pots it. Hero calls along with 2 others. We can argue that this probably isn't the best call pre, but it would be a short thread if I folded.

Our villain, the button, is the most experienced PLO player at the table. He is usually raising pre flop a large percentage of the time.

Ok, the flop is Qs2s8d. Hero is first to act. What is our action?

 

[trever]

pot

 

[Ben]

Czech-raise, which you'll want to do with a pretty wide variety of holdings against a loose opener on the button on this flop. Leading kind of sucks, as it makes your hand more transparent and is likely to get you multiple callers, while OOP with a fair number of bad turn cards out there.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Definitely bet here. Second nut with the second nut flush draw is very strong.

 

[Kain8]

Definitely check raise. If the flop gets checked through, you can bet any turn for value.

 

[courage]

I'd prolly lead for near pot here. Any card above an 8 might not thrill you and you'd be surprised the type of draws that will roll with you. Chippy on the button?

 

[DrStrange]

Fold preflop - Hero's position is bad but the dagger to the heart is when makes middle set and/or the second nut flush draw and that leads to big pots mostly when Hero has a strong second place hand. ( and no, that doesn't make it a bad thread if Hero does fold preflop. The foundation decision in a hand of poker is during the preflop phase. Learning when to fold preflop is THE most important thing to know and always worthy of discussion. )

Look at the place Hero finds himself in now. That is a monster flop, middles set plus the second flush draw. Yet even now there is doubt. Does Hero pray for a flushing turn to save himself from top set? Or does Hero hope to brick out and take down the pot with middle set? One of my rules of thumb is I made a bad preflop decision when I flop lucky and then don't know what I want to see when the board runs out.

So the pot on the flop is $18 with ~$140 left behind. Five way action and we have a some what dry flop. It will take just under three pot sized bets in a heads up environment to get all in. Hero's fate is sealed if this hand is top set vs middle set. The money is going into the middle and Hero is either going to get lucky or lose the expected two time in three.

We don't know key things. Is Hero a hold'em guy playing Omaha? What is Hero's table image? How weak is the half of the table still learning PLO? Is someone able to stack off with nothing but naked aces? Is the original raiser LAGgy post flop? Does he C-bet a lot? How I play the hand is going to be critically dependent on this information.

Hero should focus on the other prospects because the results when top set is in play are going to happen.

Does Hero want to blow the hand up now? If so, go for the check raise. Button seems likely to bet the hand and hero's check raise will have the table calling $72 cold. That bet seems big enough to fold out most or all of the lessor hands. The good thing about that play is there is a chance the guy holding the nut flush draw folds to the massive bets - not that likely in a multiway pot but possible.

Does Hero want to milk the hand and try extracting from the weaker players? It is quite possible Hero has 80%+ of the equity here, all it takes is no one holds QQ and no one holds Ax of spades. In that case, Hero should bet and let people draw to their gut shots and over pairs.

I lean towards the greedy line. Let's bet $15 and see if several people will call.

 

[Ghoti]

I like check raising a lot

 

[Adam Crowley]

First time I slightly disagree with dr strange. I would call pre vs a wide opening range nearly 300bb deep vs a wide BTN range. You can't flop good very often and position is always a concern.

This is one of the best flops for your hand. C/r would be my standard play here. If you get called it will be from mostly sets or nut flush draws and your almost always in a great spot. The only hand that flopped you dead is QQAxss suited to the A.

If you get repotted on the flop you probably have to go with it. The rare case when I would fold, is when your facing an opponent that would never re pot worse then top two and the nut flush draw.

 

[krafticus]

Looks like hero took a bad line here. Hero bets $16. (Which I think was the size of the pot). Next player calls, and villain re-pots it to $80. Action now on hero.

What do we do now???

 

[Rhodeman77]

I like the lead bet. You are very strong, no reason to take a chance it gets checked through. The only draw is an inside wrap with 9, 10, J with 3 of those outs being dirty making your flush.

Also you trapped a little dead money with the call in between you and the Villian.

Easy shove now that Villian raised. If he has QQ you have outs.

 

[Kain8]

Either your set is good against the button's AAxx with nut spades, or you have a draw with your own flush against his top set. It's incredibly unlikely that the button has you beat both ways. Ship it in and play a big pot.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Raise or fold spot, and I just don't see enough definitely strength to fold a hand this strong here. Shoving gives you the best chance to get it heads-up, and as Kain said, it's hard for someone to have you beat both ways here (especially with the as top card on board, so he would have to use all four cards to make the set and the flush draw).

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Mark, villain was out of position this hand, and check-repotted you.

 

[onerand]

Mark, villain was out of position this hand, and check-repotted you.

If button is aggressive, I like a check raise on the flop. But since it looks like you had position on villain, stick the rest in now.

You smashed the flop. Villain will have a wide value range that you crush. And you are 6 handed.

 

[Kain8]

Sooooo, what happened @krafticus ??

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

He jammed, villain snapped, and turned over top set. They ran it twice, and hero hit flushes on non pairing boards both times. Sometimes variance is your friend.

 

[krafticus]

He jammed, villain snapped, and turned over top set. They ran it twice, and hero hit flushes on non pairing boards both times. Sometimes variance is your friend.

Yeah, what he said.

 

[PhilLaFond]

This hand was a hoot to watch play out...grin grin wink wink.