Tourney Question on out of turn ruling - Hand dead (1 Viewer)

[jemfernandez]

So I was playing in a local tournament yesterday and this ruling happened and I’m seeking your thoughts on this.

So on the flop I continuation bet and the guy to my left folds. I start sliding my cards towards the dealer who’s on my right and another player goes, wait there’s still someone in the hand. It was already 3am so I missed the fact that it wasn’t heads up but three way to the flop. The cards maybe moved about 6 inches from where I usually keep them and my hand was still on the cards at that time and it’s clearly identifiable thought my intention was obviously to muck the hand and take the pot and get on with the game. The player in the hand called the floor and the floor ruled my hand dead and I had a two hand penalty for acting out of turn.

Is this normal? The two hand penalty for acting out of turn was announced at the start of the tourney so I have no arguments there, but should my hand be ruled dead?

 

[courage]

What did the dealer say to the floor?

Basically yes, you didn't protect your hand.

 

[jemfernandez]

What did the dealer say to the floor?

Basically yes, you didn't protect your hand.

The dealer said I acted out of turn as a fold.

 

[BGinGA]

That's absurd. So you folded when you made the only bet on the table?

Penalty for acting out of turn, fine. But the hand should not be ruled dead, especially if your hand was still on the cards. I might give some credence if you had actually released the cards, but if you still had control of them, they are still live.

The player in the hand called the floor

And ^this^ guy was a dick.

 

[jemfernandez]

I feel the same way. But the whole table seemed to agree with the ruling. Oh, and ‘she’ was indeed a dick

 

[Poker Zombie]

TDA rules, 2017 addresses this. It was new for 2017 so maybe floor didnt know, or was just an idiot (most likely the 2nd one)...

15 B: If a player bets then discards thinking he or she has won (forgetting another player is still in the hand), the dealer should hold the cards and call the floor. If the cards are mucked and not retrievable and identifiable to 100% certainty, the player has no redress and is not entitled to a refund of called bets. If the player initiated a bet or raise and hasn’t been called, the uncalled amount will be returned.

 

[jemfernandez]

Thanks @Poker Zombie !

 

[DJ Mack]

TDA rules, 2017 addresses this. It was new for 2017 so maybe floor didnt know, or was just an idiot (most likely the 2nd one)...

Or the property hasn't adopted the 2017 TDA rules (or any version of TDA) yet - they are voluntary after all. The city I live in is still using the 2011 National Electric Code even though there have been several versions since.

 

[derekdd23]

This is the exact reason I never muck my cards until he pot is pushed anymore. I think the penalty was unwarranted for a first time accident.

 

[Quicksilver-75]

I'm still trying to figure why the dealer didn't just use common sense here.
You are the only bettor and you fold??? Sounds like you weren't the only one not paying attention.
The recovery rule always....unless the cards blatantly thrown to the muck.

 

[jemfernandez]

Yeah the penalty is really harsh. There’s always some poor guy in seat 1 who can’t see seat 9’s hand or is covering his cards with his hand and acts out of turn. No warning. Immediate 2 hand penalty. I wonder if this is common practice for out of turn actions anywhere else.

 

[DJ Mack]

The two hand penalty is what it is. They did warn everybody about acting out of turn and state the penalty.

The more egregious and abuse of discretion is killing the player’s hand IMO. That’s just gratuitous on top of the penalty.

 

[brains613]

No way do I muck that hand as a dealer. Cards are still in your possession. I would actually just ignore you and say pointedly, with a hand gesture, "Action on seat 4".

As other's said, two hand penalty sucks, but so be it. Dead hand is bullshit.

 

[GIANTDustySquid]

Brutal man