Question regarding Bad Beat Jackpot hand eligibility. With Poll. (1 Viewer)

[Run 'Em]

I host a fairly regular small stakes cash game (Hold'Em) where I rake $5 out of each bomb pot to fund our Bad Beat Jackpot (BBJ).
In order to claim the BBJ, you have to lose with "Jacks full or better", and also "must use both hole cards".
Suppose a hand plays out like this...
If Player "Thom" had
and Player "Kevin" had
The board runs out.. Kevin is all in, and Thom calls.
Kevin scoops the pot with quad Queens.
Technically, Thom's AAA55 qualifies for the BBJ, but his BEST hand is AAAQQ, which doesn't.
Would you award Thom the BBJ?
Luckily for me, a player brought up the possibility of this scenario before it happened, so I don't have to make a rushed decision on the spot.
I almost never play in casinos, so I don't know how they handle it. I also did a quick search, and couldn't find an answer.
Please, help me decide...

 

[doublebooyah85]

@bergs

 

[ekricket]

It’s your best 5 card hand using your hole cards and the board.

Thom’ best 5 card hand does not include his 5.

This is a common question in casinos and I’ve seen it not awarded several times in situations such as this.

If this was Omaha it would be different. Then his best 5 card hand would include both the A and the 5.

 

[LeLe]

Technically, Thom's AAA55 qualifies for the BBJ, but his BEST hand is AAAQQ, which doesn't.

Here your answer, not sure why there even a need for the poll as BBJP need to use Both the whole cards with the best possible hand

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Its best hand, we can't pick and choose which cards to use. Bummer river for sure.

 

[Run 'Em]

Thanks ekricket... I figured it has to happen often enough that some of you have seen/experienced it.
Thanks LeLe.... People enjoy polls! I guess my confusion revolves around the "best possible hand" aspect.

 

[allforcharity]

You're quite generous with the Bad Beat trigger. I hear at casinos nowadays you have to lose with quad 8s or better.

 

[Run 'Em]

You're quite generous with the Bad Beat trigger. I hear at casinos nowadays you have to lose with quad 8s or better.

Quad 8s is WAY too much! In all my 10s of years hosting, we've never had a bad beat that big, lol.
We've been thru about 10 cash game nights in 5 months, and the BBJ stands at $250ish (our first go-around with the BBJ). I think once we get above $500, my plan is to lower the threshold to 8s full or better. I'd like to see someone win it

 

[doublebooyah85]

I wouldn’t lower the hand requirement but start a second bad beat jackpot w lower requirements

 

[Run 'Em]

I don't know if I like that.. I wouldn't want to pull $10 from the bomb pots to fund both. What's your reasoning behind not wanting to lower the existing BBJ?
I figure once the BBJ is above $500, it'll be doing it's job bringing people into the game.

 

[gaberr]

Pulling a rake is where home games go south. Even if everyone is ok with it, that is where it becomes a legal matter.

 

[Run 'Em]

Thanks Gaberr, that's another good point. 100% of the money goes back to the players.

 

[TheYeti]

Thanks Gaberr, that's another good point. 100% of the money goes back to the players.

In my House Rules, I changed it from "rake" to "take" ... y'know, just in case.

 

[Poker Zombie]

I like the idea of lowering the BBJ at a certain level (do not like two jackpots either). Just make sure it is clear that that is what you intend to do well ahead of it becoming a thing. A sizable jackpot with a more achievable target may become an incentive to make a particular game - and a point of contention for the player that missed the game if the jackpot was suddenly lower.

To your original post, that is why I do not put a 2-hole-card qualifier on (most of) my Jackpots. Sure, it can be split (not an issue, really). The only time we had the 2-hole-card qualifier was the game the month after paid off our mortgage. We offered the equivalent of 1 month of our mortgage as a jackpot. After paying the same note for 15 years, we wouldn't miss that "extra" money - but we were going to make someone really have to earn it.

 

[legend672]

Why would the lesser hand qualify over the better hand ?

 

[Frogzilla]

Quad 8s is WAY too much! In all my 10s of years hosting, we've never had a bad beat that big, lol.
We've been thru about 10 cash game nights in 5 months, and the BBJ stands at $250ish (our first go-around with the BBJ). I think once we get above $500, my plan is to lower the threshold to 8s full or better. I'd like to see someone win it

This is the way to do it for home games…lower the threshold slowly as it builds to increase the freq. Some of these quads beaten jackpots are on the order of 1 in 100,000 occurrences, aka expected to hit once every 10-20 years in your game. You want it more regular. And you don’t really wanna be floating 5-6 figure jackpots probably.
Jacks full going down to 8s full seems good to me.

 

[cosmokramer]

You just need to play mixed/circus games, then those losing quads aren‘t very rare anymore
We have a nightly bad beat jackpot, usually gets to around $300 a night.
I just checked, the last 5 were:
AAAQQ (8 handed most of the time tho, that takes away possibilities…)
AAAAK
5-9 straight flush
QQQQA
5-9 straight flush

 

[Run 'Em]

@Poker Zombie- That's a generous Jackpot! I agree, 1-card may be the way to go for simplicity's sake. I was certainly going to give plenty of notice before lowering the threshold.
@Legend- I'm not sure I understand your question?. A BBJ is awarded to the losing hand
@Frogzilla, Exactly! No, I don't need the hassle that big $$$ jackpots can bring.
@Cosmo, I would love to play more circus games! It's hard to find others that want to.
In the end, I may find another way to fund the BBJ (or ditch it completely), so I don't step on any legal toes.

 

[JustinInMN]

Thom's had does not qualify by any definition of "both hole cards must play." Tom's hand is AAAQQ by hold'em rules and because cards speak. (Player declarations are irrelevant.)

 

[gaberr]

Maybe fund a nightly high hand $20 at the start of the night or after each time it is hit vs. taking from active pots.

 

[JustinInMN]

You're quite generous with the Bad Beat trigger. I hear at casinos nowadays you have to lose with quad 8s or better.

Well having a single table home game for a few hours a week is very different than multiple tables running 24/7 in a public room.

 

[allforcharity]

Well having a single table home game for a few hours a week is very different than multiple tables running 24/7 in a public room.

Fair cop. Previous casino standard was Aces full. I think the quad 8s is ridiculous, actually.

 

[ekricket]

This is the way to do it for home games…lower the threshold slowly as it builds to increase the freq. Some of these quads beaten jackpots are on the order of 1 in 100,000 occurrences, aka expected to hit once every 10-20 years in your game. You want it more regular. And you don’t really wanna be floating 5-6 figure jackpots probably.
Jacks full going down to 8s full seems good to me.

We have regular games Thursday and Saturday nights. Only NLHE tournaments. We have a high hand jackpot for each one - it’s regularly taken down by quads, sometimes later on higher quads. Recent game we had quads twice and a straight flush before the first level was done. Craziest shit ever. We won’t buy out aces full because we feel quads is a very real probability anymore. I was amazed at first but just take it in stride now.

 

[JustinInMN]

Fair cop. Previous casino standard was Aces full. I think the quad 8s is ridiculous, actually.

My local room was aces full of tens beaten (both hole cards must play and at least one hole card must be an ace for aces full) from about 2000-2010 or so and then it went to quad deuces beaten where it's stayed.

Jackpots used to go off every few weeks to just every few months since the change. (30 table room, I would guess an average of 8-10 tables going on average over a week)

 

[Frogzilla]

My local room was aces full of tens beaten (both hole cards must play and one hole card must be an ace for aces full) from about 2000-2010 or so and then it went to quad deuces beaten where it's stayed.

Jackpots used to go off every few weeks to just every few months since the change. (30 table room, I would guess an average of 8-10 tables going on average over a week)

I like the requirement that the ace in hole needed for aces full. TT being a bad beat on AAAxx doesn’t really feel like a bad beat. You lost with a hand that loses to what 18 combos of JJ-KK and another 44 combos of Ax. You lose to 62 combos. You have river thin value.

I dunno how to word that rule into Jacks full beaten but it could prevent a bad beat jackpot that feels a little trivial

 

[Frogzilla]

Bad beat pr0n time? No jackpot in this room.

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

No, because his best 5 card hand doesn’t include a 5. If it was a high hand jackpot, and he had A5 on a AAA54 board, it would play, because you could use his 5.

 

[chippitydoodah]

I think "Kevin" should get the bad beat jackpot for how many times I, I mean HE, got sucked out on the river last Friday night!

 

[JustinInMN]

I like the requirement that the ace in hole needed for aces full. TT being a bad beat on AAAxx doesn’t really feel like a bad beat. You lost with a hand that loses to what 18 combos of JJ-KK and another 44 combos of Ax. You lose to 62 combos. You have river thin value.

I dunno how to word that rule into Jacks full beaten but it could prevent a bad beat jackpot that feels a little trivial

Maybe "At least one hole card must match the three of a kind portion of the full house for full house qualifiers."

I should also add, the full requirement under the old rules was "aces full of tens or better beaten by quads or better" Aces full over aces full did not pay a jackpot.

 

[TheRealStephen12]

I hear at casinos nowadays you have to lose with quad 8s or better.

Was watching The Lodge stream (mostly for the background noise), turns out their hand is quad TENS or better.