Tourney Rebuy procedure (1 Viewer)

[sirfane]

Hi, Ive just started tournament style poker with my friends, and not sure how rebuys work.
There itsnt much online that ive found, is there somewhere to start?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Welcome! Rebuys are just that, someone rejoining the tournament after losing. Lets say your starting stack is 500 in chips, if I lose, I can pay the buyin again and get another 500 to get back in the action.

Some decisions you can make:
- cutoff: usually theres a time limit for rebuys, so decide a time where there's no more. An hour or two into the tournament or something.

- price: sometimes a rebuy is discounted; buyin for $50, rebuys $25.

- Rodger: you'll have to decide whether Rodger is allowed to play again after what he pulled last time.

The easiest way to do it is to just put them in the same seat, but you can also change it up. What questions do you have about rebuys?

 

[krafticus]

Additional items to consider:
- How many rebuys you would allow each player. -- Some tournaments allow only 1 per player while others offer up to an unlimited amount.
- Cut-off time -- This is usually the 1st break / color up in the tournament. If doing 20 minute levels, you may find that your color up level is after level 5, and thus an hour and 40 minutes into the event.
- Cost -- As mentioned, some people allow different cost options for a rebuy. It all depends on where your $$ is going for the initial buy-in and payouts (does the house get a cut for food and such? Some make the rebuy cost lower.
- Amount of chips -- Initial stacks may be 10k for example on a $40 buy-in. You may offer a $20 rebuy for 5k in chips. You could offer a $40 rebuy for 5k in chips, or you could give everyone the original starting stack (my preference).

In my game, I keep it consistent with the same buy-in amount as rebuy amount, and the same amount of chips for each. It just makes the game prep easier having stacks ready to go for rebuys. I allow 1 rebuy per person before the 1st break (2 hours).

Some games allow add-on's as well. Lets say you get 10k in chips for $40. You may allow players to add an additional 5k in chips for an additional $20. You could have this at the beginning of the game, or offer it as an option at the 1st break as well. Those players with healthy stacks may not want/need to add-on, while those players with shorter stacks may want to top off a bit. Add-ons are usually added into the prize pool as well (unless you specifically state otherwise -- like a $10 optional add-on for $5k in chips which goes to the house for food and beverages).

Some hosts may purchase "Rebuy" chips and hand them out to each player at the start of the game. If the player loses all of their chips, they can turn in the rebuy chip and rebuy. This way, you can easily track who has, and has not rebought in the event. Also, some hosts will let those with rebuy chips available add-on for an additional amount as well (see above).

Some hosts keep the starting stacks small and the buy-ins small to induce lots of action and lots of rebuys. For example, you start with 2500 in chips with the blinds at 25/50 and the buyin is $10. You have short stacks compare to the blinds, and you get lots of all-in and bust outs, but the rebuys are "cheap" and unlimited, so you build big stacks with short buy-ins. Someone will get lucky to buy-in 1 or 2 times, while some may rebuy 10+ times.

Other hosts (like myself) like deeper stacks with a mid level buy-in. We start with 10k in chips at the same 25/50 blind level. Coolers happen, and its nice to be able to buy back in if that happens. Some people like the double up early or rebuy approach as well. Some players (like @Highli99 ) really want the cash game to get started and may just punt.

Lots of options with the rebuys, as you can tell. Feel free to ask any other questions you may have.

Mark

 

[sirfane]

Thanks guys.

so from what I’m taking,
Start 20k chips for $20 buy in includes brisket smoked by yours truely. (I do take a cut for food depends on players)
I’d Probly offer;
$10 for 20k rebuy.
And maybe a $5 for 7-10k rebuy/top up
All the rebuy cash would go into the payouts ?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Thanks guys.

so from what I’m taking,
Start 20k chips for $20 buy in includes brisket smoked by yours truely. (I do take a cut for food depends on players)
I’d Probly offer;
$10 for 20k rebuy.
And maybe a $5 for 7-10k rebuy/top up
All the rebuy cash would go into the payouts ?

@krafticus is an authority!

Cut is fine as long as everyone knows about it.

Yes, rebuy to payouts. An easy way to do that is make the payouts a portion of the prizepool. Everyone pays $20, you take your cut, and all thats left is $X. Then the prizes are a percentage: 60%, 25%, and 15% or whatever. The rebuys can just be added to that prize pool and divided up to the winners.

 

[Highli99]

Additional items to consider:
- How many rebuys you would allow each player. -- Some tournaments allow only 1 per player while others offer up to an unlimited amount.
- Cut-off time -- This is usually the 1st break / color up in the tournament. If doing 20 minute levels, you may find that your color up level is after level 5, and thus an hour and 40 minutes into the event.
- Cost -- As mentioned, some people allow different cost options for a rebuy. It all depends on where your $$ is going for the initial buy-in and payouts (does the house get a cut for food and such? Some make the rebuy cost lower.
- Amount of chips -- Initial stacks may be 10k for example on a $40 buy-in. You may offer a $20 rebuy for 5k in chips. You could offer a $40 rebuy for 5k in chips, or you could give everyone the original starting stack (my preference).

In my game, I keep it consistent with the same buy-in amount as rebuy amount, and the same amount of chips for each. It just makes the game prep easier having stacks ready to go for rebuys. I allow 1 rebuy per person before the 1st break (2 hours).

Some games allow add-on's as well. Lets say you get 10k in chips for $40. You may allow players to add an additional 5k in chips for an additional $20. You could have this at the beginning of the game, or offer it as an option at the 1st break as well. Those players with healthy stacks may not want/need to add-on, while those players with shorter stacks may want to top off a bit. Add-ons are usually added into the prize pool as well (unless you specifically state otherwise -- like a $10 optional add-on for $5k in chips which goes to the house for food and beverages).

Some hosts may purchase "Rebuy" chips and hand them out to each player at the start of the game. If the player loses all of their chips, they can turn in the rebuy chip and rebuy. This way, you can easily track who has, and has not rebought in the event. Also, some hosts will let those with rebuy chips available add-on for an additional amount as well (see above).

Some hosts keep the starting stacks small and the buy-ins small to induce lots of action and lots of rebuys. For example, you start with 2500 in chips with the blinds at 25/50 and the buyin is $10. You have short stacks compare to the blinds, and you get lots of all-in and bust outs, but the rebuys are "cheap" and unlimited, so you build big stacks with short buy-ins. Someone will get lucky to buy-in 1 or 2 times, while some may rebuy 10+ times.

Other hosts (like myself) like deeper stacks with a mid level buy-in. We start with 10k in chips at the same 25/50 blind level. Coolers happen, and its nice to be able to buy back in if that happens. Some people like the double up early or rebuy approach as well. Some players (like @Highli99 ) really want the cash game to get started and may just punt.

Lots of options with the rebuys, as you can tell. Feel free to ask any other questions you may have.

Mark

In tournaments betting or calling with anything other than the nuts is a punt hahah

 

[Machine]

brisket smoked by yours truely.

Pics or it didn't happen

 

[sirfane]

Pics or it didn't happen

here’s one from the first tournament I did

 

[sirfane]

Additional items to consider:
- How many rebuys you would allow each player. -- Some tournaments allow only 1 per player while others offer up to an unlimited amount.
- Cut-off time -- This is usually the 1st break / color up in the tournament. If doing 20 minute levels, you may find that your color up level is after level 5, and thus an hour and 40 minutes into the event.
- Cost -- As mentioned, some people allow different cost options for a rebuy. It all depends on where your $$ is going for the initial buy-in and payouts (does the house get a cut for food and such? Some make the rebuy cost lower.
- Amount of chips -- Initial stacks may be 10k for example on a $40 buy-in. You may offer a $20 rebuy for 5k in chips. You could offer a $40 rebuy for 5k in chips, or you could give everyone the original starting stack (my preference).

In my game, I keep it consistent with the same buy-in amount as rebuy amount, and the same amount of chips for each. It just makes the game prep easier having stacks ready to go for rebuys. I allow 1 rebuy per person before the 1st break (2 hours).

Some games allow add-on's as well. Lets say you get 10k in chips for $40. You may allow players to add an additional 5k in chips for an additional $20. You could have this at the beginning of the game, or offer it as an option at the 1st break as well. Those players with healthy stacks may not want/need to add-on, while those players with shorter stacks may want to top off a bit. Add-ons are usually added into the prize pool as well (unless you specifically state otherwise -- like a $10 optional add-on for $5k in chips which goes to the house for food and beverages).

Some hosts may purchase "Rebuy" chips and hand them out to each player at the start of the game. If the player loses all of their chips, they can turn in the rebuy chip and rebuy. This way, you can easily track who has, and has not rebought in the event. Also, some hosts will let those with rebuy chips available add-on for an additional amount as well (see above).

Some hosts keep the starting stacks small and the buy-ins small to induce lots of action and lots of rebuys. For example, you start with 2500 in chips with the blinds at 25/50 and the buyin is $10. You have short stacks compare to the blinds, and you get lots of all-in and bust outs, but the rebuys are "cheap" and unlimited, so you build big stacks with short buy-ins. Someone will get lucky to buy-in 1 or 2 times, while some may rebuy 10+ times.

Other hosts (like myself) like deeper stacks with a mid level buy-in. We start with 10k in chips at the same 25/50 blind level. Coolers happen, and its nice to be able to buy back in if that happens. Some people like the double up early or rebuy approach as well. Some players (like @Highli99 ) really want the cash game to get started and may just punt.

Lots of options with the rebuys, as you can tell. Feel free to ask any other questions you may have.

Mark

To add to this would you do offer a bounty as well? Or instead of a rebuy. Or one of each. Sometimes do it sometimes not, depending on the vibe?

 

[Machine]

We have several BBQ threads and a hot sauce thread =) - Welcome looks good

 

[Poker Zombie]

More rebuy options:

• Surrender - This allows a rebuy, but you forfeit chips still in play to the bank. Typically in a rebuy tournament, during the last level rebuys are permitted, all the short stacks shove all-in. This slows the game with multiple side pots, and could give one lucky player a sizable chip advantage. With surrender players just get a fresh stack.
• Rebuy permitted when chip count is =< starting stack. This is typical in casinos, but it effectively makes a $20, T20,000 tournament a $40, T40,000 tournament. Casinos do it for the added rake, because there really is no reason to ever start with 1/2 a stack. (I do not like this rule, but provide it for informational purposes)
• Single chip or chip tubes for rebuys - Some advocate rebuys handled with as few chips as possible (4xT5000 in a T20,000 game). I prefer to use chip tubes and load them before the game using playable stacks using a few of the smallest chip used after the rebuy period ends (you do not want a rebuy on the last rebuy break, then have to instantly color up those chips).
• Rebuy or Re-entry - while they are practically the same, they are not. A rebuy reloads chips, the player keeps their original seat, and the prize pool goes up, but the number of paid positions at tournament end remains the same. With a re-entry, the player is treated as a new player. They draw for a vacant seat (admittedly, the seat they are vacating may be the only available seat), get a fresh stack, and the payout structure now counts an additional player which may increase the number of positions paid at tournament end.

I used to allow 1/2 rebuys for top-ups but this was never utilized, even by the nittiest of players, so I eventually dropped it as an option.

I use an excel spreadsheet to make the math easier for calculating payouts as rebuy games introduce a lot of payout possibilities. Hit me up if you'd like to see it.

 

[krafticus]

To add to this would you do offer a bounty as well? Or instead of a rebuy. Or one of each. Sometimes do it sometimes not, depending on the vibe?

I like bounties, and there a few ways to handle them in a rebuy tournament too.
- Lose your stack, lose your bounty. If you rebuy, you get a new stack and a new bounty -- which is included in your buy-in ($60 buy-in includes a $10 bounty, so when you rebuy, it's another $60 which gives you another bounty chip).

- Lose your seat, lose your bounty -- If you get stacked, but rebuy, you keep your bounty. Now, your rebuy would be the initial cost minus the bounty. In the same $60 buy-in from above, you would now rebuy for $50 for your stack, and keep your bounty.

I guess those are really the main ways to do the bounty. I usually cash out the bounties when the player busts out of the tournament. Some wait until the tournament is over, but I hate making players wait around if they are ready to leave.

 

[Nymor]

Another "rebuy" option is the one I use for my tournaments which the players really like.

(8max) Buyin is £20, for which you get a 25k starting stack and 3 additional 'bullets' worth another 25k each. If you go below 5k in the first hour (3 levels) you can fire a bullet and get another 25k, and if below 25k in the second hour you can do the same. All remaining bullets are chipped up at the 2 hour mark where the average stack becomes 100k (assuming 8 still in).

I play this very deepstacked, as well as Pot Limit for all variants, with opening blinds of 25/50 which rise to 400/800 over the first 6 levels (2 hrs), so still 100+bb deep at that first break. Whole tournie goes about 7 hours with 20min blinds and a few small breaks. I'm doing one this w/e that, I think, will use 15min blinds instead so 5/5:30 in length.

I really like this structure as it:
- gives everyone* at least 3-4 hours play. Although players don't come far I don't want them busting too early, it's a social as well as a game.
- gives players a fixed cost.
- gives me a fixed/known prizepool - £20x8 => £80/50/30.
- gets so I can use all of my chip denoms , 5 for the bullets and 25, 100, 500, 1k, 5k & 25k in the stacks


* one player on tilt did manage to bust out completely in 45mins once upon a time - 100k chips with blinds on 75/150

 

[Poker Zombie]

A couple more notes:

• My rebuys are the same price as buy-in, but players get 10% to 25% more in chips (varies on blind structure). It gives just a little more incentive rebuy as by the end of the rebuy period, the average stack (all chips in play / number of players) is roughly 130% the starting stack.
• The rebuy period should end on a break. This gives spouses that are sitting at different tables a chance to converse and decide if it's worth a surrender (if spouse A is big stacked, spouse B will almost always surrender their short stack).
• The first level after the rebuy-period-ending break should give a rebuy a playable amount of chips. I try to stick to 18 Big Blinds or greater, though I've seen casinos with much lower. When I tried a casino structure that gave a rebuy only 10 BB, one player was notably upset - though mostly because he realized he was pot committed a little too late.

 

[DeadheadDave]

I do them as the same price as the tournament, and the same chip stack as the starting stack. I allow for a 2 hour window for re-buys. If the player did not rebuy, they may "add-on" additional chips for the same $ as the buy-in.

EDIT: This is only for my tournaments listed as re-buy tourneys... I much prefer the freezeout format.

 

[ekricket]

Another "rebuy" option is the one I use for my tournaments which the players really like.

(8max) Buyin is £20, for which you get a 25k starting stack and 3 additional 'bullets' worth another 25k each. If you go below 5k in the first hour (3 levels) you can fire a bullet and get another 25k, and if below 25k in the second hour you can do the same. All remaining bullets are chipped up at the 2 hour mark where the average stack becomes 100k (assuming 8 still in).

I play this very deepstacked, as well as Pot Limit for all variants, with opening blinds of 25/50 which rise to 400/800 over the first 6 levels (2 hrs), so still 100+bb deep at that first break. Whole tournie goes about 7 hours with 20min blinds and a few small breaks. I'm doing one this w/e that, I think, will use 15min blinds instead so 5/5:30 in length.

I really like this structure as it:
- gives everyone* at least 3-4 hours play. Although players don't come far I don't want them busting too early, it's a social as well as a game.
- gives players a fixed cost.
- gives me a fixed/known prizepool - £20x8 => £80/50/30.
- gets so I can use all of my chip denoms , 5 for the bullets and 25, 100, 500, 1k, 5k & 25k in the stacks


* one player on tilt did manage to bust out completely in 45mins once upon a time - 100k chips with blinds on 75/150

We do similar in our tournaments, start with 15,000, but one of them is a 5k that’s not in play unless you get felted before first break, then it’s your rebuy. If you don’t use it before first break it becomes active and it’s your addon.

This helps with hosting duties as rebuys are built in and take care of themselves.
It’s also a safety net - not a license to go wild just cause you can rebuy back to original or greater.
It gives you enough to be competitive if you get coolered but not enough incentive to just shove blind so you can rebuy when you are low.
It also pretty much ensures that players can get 2 hrs of poker at least if they want.
The 5k addon benefits everyone so it’s not a $$ based advantage for those that have fixed budgets.

 

[Preditor]

Great info here. Couple of more things to consider

• Make sure you give people enough time to bust out and utilize the rebuy. I used to have the rebuy end at the first break, at level 3 (one hour). It hardly gave people time to bust out. When I did 4 levels before the rebuy period ended, I get many more rebuys. People always seem to bust out at that 4th level.
• Most rebuys will give you a smaller amount of chips to keep chips under control. In my game, you start with 10k at a 12/12/5/6 breakdown. For the rebuy, I give players one 5k chip and five 1k chips. Keeps the chips on the table managagable, and there are plenty of lower demons in play for them to make change.

 

[DeadheadDave]

Great info here. Couple of more things to consider

• Make sure you give people enough time to bust out and utilize the rebuy. I used to have the rebuy end at the first break, at level 3 (one hour). It hardly gave people time to bust out. When I did 4 levels before the rebuy period ended, I get many more rebuys. People always seem to bust out at that 4th level.
• Most rebuys will give you a smaller amount of chips to keep chips under control. In my game, you start with 10k at a 12/12/5/6 breakdown. For the rebuy, I give players one 5k chip and five 1k chips. Keeps the chips on the table managagable, and there are plenty of lower demons in play for them to make change.

I agree on both of these. I also used to end rebuys at break 1. Now I go to 2nd break…. 2 hours. More rebuys.

And yes, when someone rebuys give them big chips, not the starting stack.

 

[sirfane]

Thanks Everyone, There's more info than I can process, But I think I might just offer something like, a Half cost of buy in for a full reload starting stack value. 1 per person only, so it stays simple and kinda fair.