Scrotum Symposium (1 Viewer)

[Kain8]

I played a lot of Scrotum on Saturday night. (Giggity?)

One hand in particular that wasn't really anything of consequence to my stack but stuck out in my mind. Preflop I was dealt a jack high straight and it was about as rainbow as possible, I had either or as my only suit. I decided to pitch the seven and the eight and try for a bigger straight with my nine, ten, jack draw. I felt that if I stood pat (to this point in the game only one player did so with a 7 high straight and lost half his stack) it would look too strong, even though my hand can be derailed pretty fast on a lot of flops.

Flop came, I whiffed on my draw, and I discretely folded up shop to a bet and 2 other players called.

Pretty standard spot I feel, but I don't have TONS of experience in Scrotum (damn it) so I'd appreciate feedback or discussion in general about the game or this hand.

Thanks in advance!

 

[gopherblue]

I have no idea, but you win today’s thread title award.

 

[WedgeRock]

In hi-low scrotum, you are always trying for the nut-nut.

A straight isn't particularly a strong hand in Scrotum. Other players are drawing to much better hands. I don't have a problem with this play, but I have very little experience with the Scrotum and am not confident in the best play.

 

[k9dr]

I would never draw to a straight in scrotum as bigger hands are very likely going to beat you.

 

[Kain8]

I would never draw to a straight in scrotum as bigger hands are very likely going to beat you.

That's my thinking originally, so I guess it's just one of those odd hands where it doesn't matter what I do, it's going to be a poor situation.

 

[WedgeRock]

Like AAAA in Omaha... Fold...

 

[Jimulacrum]

If you're going to play for a straight, just play the pat straight. Chasing a slightly higher straight isn't worth dumping your made straight. It's like throwing away a queen-high flush to try to make an ace-high flush. You gotta be sure that you're in a make-or-break situation against a king-high flush, or you're wasting your made hand for nothing.

That said, maybe the straight isn't worth keeping in the first place. Scrotum is a little bit like Five Card Draw with funky draws. A straight is super-likely to be the best hand preflop. However, the massive difference is that your opponents get to draw a large number of cards, so hands like two pair, trips, and flush draws are much more likely to improve than usual.

For example, the probability that a four-flush will complete by the river is 1 – (39/47)(38/46)(37/45)(36/44)(35/43), or about 62.5%, so someone on a flush draw would actually be a significant favorite against you with five cards to come. The probability that two pair will fill up is 1 – (43/47)(42/46)(41/45)(40/44)(39/43), or about 37.2%, so you'd be ahead there, but nowhere near as much as you might expect. (Calculating improvement odds for trips is a little trickier, and I need to get back to work soon, but it's the probability of there being a paired board—which is significant— plus the probability of spiking quads, minus the overlap. I doubt the straight is a favorite, but if it is, it's a slim favorite.)

Combine two or more opponents chasing different hands, and every board becomes a minefield. On top of that, you have reverse implied odds problems when there's still betting to come; even if your hand is a favorite early in the hand, you tend to lose money on later betting rounds. And everyone knows you held all five of your cards, so everyone knows they need a five-card hand to beat you.

 

[upNdown]

somebody want to run down the rules?
I haven’t played this one yet and I’m NOT googling “scrotum.”

 

[detroitdad]

Your dealt five cards. You discard however many you want pre flop when action is on you. You play what you keep. Standard flop, turn, river.

 

[links_slayer]

somebody want to run down the rules?
I haven’t played this one yet and I’m NOT googling “scrotum.”

You should download these: https://www.pokerchipforum.com/resources/abby99s-mixed-game-cards.45/

 

[links_slayer]

Your dealt five cards. You discard however many you want pre flop when action is on you. You play what you keep. Standard flop, turn, river.

Just to add clarity, you must play all cards that you keep. Keep 3? Play those 3 plus 2 from the board. Keep 2? Play those 2 plus 3 from the board.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Abby's cards are a good resource for this, but I'll run it down real quick because it's fairly simple.

Each player is dealt 5 hole cards. Preflop, in turn with the betting, each player discards any number of hole cards. (All players are entitled to know how many.)

Standard flop/turn/river board and betting. At showdown, pot goes to the best 5-card poker hand using all of the cards the player retained preflop (e.g., if you kept 3, you use your 3 plus exactly 2 board cards; if you kept 4, you use 1 board card; if you stood pat, your hand never changes).

 

[upNdown]

Sounds scary as hell.

 

[detroitdad]

Sounds scary as hell.

I don't have a ton of experience with it. Yeah, your statement sums it up. I prefer the Hi/Lo version myself.

 

[abby99]

It's a great hi/lo game.

A word of caution: Holding A-A-2-3 will not make a qualifying low, and you can't make a wheel with a 6 in your hand.

 

[Jimulacrum]

It takes a lot of players way out of their comfort zone because it's a flop-type game, but the concept of the nuts is often irrelevant. If anyone has more than two cards in the hole, quads or a straight flush is usually the nuts. (And if you're playing with people who frequently play two-card hands, I want an invite to your game.)

You're also locked into the type of hand you start with, especially as you hold more cards. If you hold two pair, you're ending the hand with either two pair or a boat. Doesn't matter if you have KK88 and the board comes KK882; you don't have quads. Start with a flush draw, and you will either have a flush or nothing (one pair at most). Any pat hand is frozen.

 

[upNdown]

but the concept of the nuts is often irrelevant. If anyone has more than two cards in the hole, quads or a straight flush is usually the nuts. (And if you're playing with people who frequently play two-card hands, I want an invite to your game.)

Like that weird “mini sohe” game we played at @MaxB - once I realized you could play all three hole cards (about an orbit too late) I got to like it. But I might have just liked it because it was novel.
These are definitely the kinds of games that can killl you if you can’t get right out of your Holdem mindset.

 

[inca911]

Standing pat with a straight or drawing to a straight is a good way to lose huge pots or win tiny ones in high-only. Just a bad idea.

I strongly agree with Marsha that the game is best played hi-lo, aka Scrotum8. There, drawing to a wheel or 6-high can be a major win. One of the best parts of scrotum is playing the players and their kept card counts. Some folks will keep JJ2 to kill you like a ninja: aka @k9dr . Best defense is to get lucky and catch a bigger boat. Boats are strong hi hands, and K-high flushes make me uncomfortable in this game. Personally I find the low to be under-played by many in Scrotum8, and I have lost very large pots with huge high hands where there was no qualifying low. Still haven't seen a steel wheel, but I did get dealt scrotal quads vs. @ChaosRock (who I think had AK flush or a good boat). I think I stood pat that hand, so he put me on a straight or lesser non-AK flush. Sometimes the cards just aren't fair! 2 pair is a great hand in Scrotum8; however, you are only playing for half the pot with that hand so tread carefully. If I'm on the fence with a hand, I prefer to play a dicey low draw rather than getting in a battle for high. Depends a lot of how many cards people have kept. If your hand isn't a 3-card keeper, it's probably worth just tossing it in. Scrotum8 is definitely a favorite of mine....

 

[Jimulacrum]

… I did get dealt scrotal quads …

Hahahahahaha! This is great.

"I've got kings full of nines. You?"

"I got dealt quads in the scrote."

 

[v1pe]

The 1/1 game I play in would love this game... I'll suggest it next go.

 

[Gear]

the concept of the nuts is often irrelevant

This. Everything you know about flop texture (from a hold'em standpoint) is out the window.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Like that weird “mini sohe” game we played at @MaxB - once I realized you could play all three hole cards (about an orbit too late) I got to like it. But I might have just liked it because it was novel.
These are definitely the kinds of games that can killl you if you can’t get right out of your Holdem mindset.

I like Little SOHE a lot for exactly that reason. The Hold'em side gives new players familiar ground to play from, but assessing your relative strength on the Super Hold'em side requires solid judgment and poker sense. It's a great competitive poker game.

Plus, you can play it up to nine-handed if you're okay with skipping a burn card, so you don't have to reserve it for shorthanded games. (That's why I thought it up in the first place … although I later learned that another player thought of it too, independently and for the same reason, and I don't know who did it first, so I can't fully claim to have invented it.)

 

[Phantom]

I am wanting to introduce this game into the rotation as I have been dealing out a heap of practice hands and really like it a lot. When it is introduced at Blades next year, it will be called 'Sabre'


Suit Ranking Questions

Is the old Clubs, Diamonds, Hearts and Spades (worst to best) used in Scrotum?

If I have an A-high flush in spades, does it beat an A-high flush in diamonds?

Would a Q-high flush in spades beat an A-high flush in diamonds, or is it still highest flush wins regardless of suit?


Betting Question

Is this game best played as Pot Limit or Limit?

 

[inca911]

No suit ranking, like regular poker. Typically played hi / lo(8), pot limit. "Sabre" is a good name!

 

[BGinGA]

Suit Ranking Questions

Is the old Clubs, Diamonds, Hearts and Spades (worst to best) used in Scrotum?

If I have an A-high flush in spades, does it beat an A-high flush in diamonds?

Would a Q-high flush in spades beat an A-high flush in diamonds, or is it still highest flush wins regardless of suit?

Suits are not used in hand rankings, similar to any other poker variant.

Betting Question

Is this game best played as Pot Limit or Limit?

I think it plays equally well as either pot-limit or fixed limit. I also think it plays best as a hi-lo split-pot game.

 

[Phantom]

No suit ranking, like regular poker. Typically played hi / lo(8), pot limit. "Sabre" is a good name!

Thanks Forrest

Suits are not used in hand rankings, similar to any other poker variant.


I think it plays equally well as either pot-limit or fixed limit. I also think it plays best as a hi-lo split-pot game.

Thanks Dave

So, if played regular (not hi-lo), the highest hand wins, and if both have same straight or flush, then a split pot?

 

[BGinGA]

Correct. But that's pretty unlikely in scrotum.

 

[Phantom]

Correct. But that's pretty unlikely in scrotum.

Thanks Dave.

I dealt a 6-handed practice and I had 4 spades in hand after single discard, and another hand had 3 hearts after discards. The flop came down with a spade and two hearts (two flushes). One was A-high and the other Q-high. If the A of hearts came down instead, just wondered how it would play out. Thanks for your input mate.

Cheers

 

[BGinGA]

Ace-high flushes are not equal..... unless all five cards in play in each hand are identical. And that's pretty unlikely in scrotum, where not everybody is playing the same number of board cards.

 

[Phantom]

Thanks Dave