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St Joe's chips - scammed by @5aces (2 Viewers)

D

DerberAlter

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Joined
Nov 5, 2018
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Location
Munich, Germany
Just received the package from @5aces

I expected to get chips in a very good condtion, for 3€/chip, but the chips have cracks! all of them!

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293929


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I wrote @5aces that I don't accept this condition and I want to undo the deal, because he never told me with word or pictures about the conditon, but he rejected me instantly. I feel like I got scammed.

Some months ago, I already bought a rack of the same chips from him, for less money, but the first rack had no cracks at all.

Let's see if we can find a solution.

Edit: Video added
 
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DerberAlter said:
Just received the package from @5aces

I expected to get chips in a very good condtion, for 3€/chip, but it seems I got scammed. the chips have cracks! all of them!

View attachment 293928

View attachment 293929

View attachment 293931


I wrote @5aces that I don't accept this condition and I want to undo the deal, because he never told me with word or pictures about the conditon, but he rejected me instantly.

Some months ago, I already bought a rack of the same chips from him, for less money. those rack had no cracks at all.

Let's see if we can find a solution.
Click to expand...
That is terrible. I love St. Jos but there is no way they’re worth 3€/chip. Hope everything works out for you.
 
DerberAlter said:
Just received the package from @5aces

I expected to get chips in a very good condtion, for 3€/chip, but the chips have cracks! all of them!

View attachment 293928

View attachment 293929

View attachment 293931


I wrote @5aces that I don't accept this condition and I want to undo the deal, because he never told me with word or pictures about the conditon, but he rejected me instantly. I feel like I got scammed.

Some months ago, I already bought a rack of the same chips from him, for less money, but the first rack had no cracks at all.

Let's see if we can find a solution.
Click to expand...
Those are his “Cheery picked” ones? That’s BS, I might, might pay $1/chip for those. I’d be asking to either return them or get a 70% refund
 
Did your communication with him include a reference to his for sale thread in the classifieds? The condition is clearly stated there.

Even so, I’d snap refund any unsatisfied buyer of my chips.
 
Let‘s make it short: I sold two racks to him some month ago. He was happy with the deal, resold a part (for more than what I have charged) and kept a rack of $0,50‘s.

Later he asked for my second rack of 0,50‘s, which have the same condition as the first rack. He asked again and again...

I told him that I didn’t want to sell it. He offered 250€. I said no, but since I want to sell my set I sold the rack for 300€ shipped and insured.

He knew about the condition (pics plus the first rack he has still in his possession) and now he pm‘ed me saying: Take it back or you won’t get happy anymore on PCF. I call this behavior „extortion“. Sorry, but I am done with this.
 
navels said:
Did your communication with him include a reference to his for sale thread in the classifieds? The condition is clearly stated there.

Even so, I’d snap refund any unsatisfied buyer of my chips.
Click to expand...
I bought a first rack in march from him. some months later now I wrote him to buy a second, but better condition rack. he told me those are cherry picked, the best he had. we made a deal for 300€, which is really a lot. he had several chances to tell me about the real condtion, and to make clear, that those have cracks.

I was aware, that he was also selling a rack of those chips with cracks. but It came not in my mind, that he will sell the rack with cracks as the best rack he has
 
DerberAlter said:
I bought a first rack in march from him. some months later now I wrote him to buy a second, but better condition rack. he told me those are cherry picked, the best he had. we made a deal for 300€, which is really a lot. he had several chances to tell me about the real condtion, and to make clear, that those have cracks.

I was aware, that he was also selling a rack of those chips with cracks. but It came not in my mind, that he will sell the rack with cracks as the best rack he has
Click to expand...
@5aces didn’t wanna sell them, @DerberAlter expected better condition chips, so refund + send them back = win-win?
 
5aces said:
Let‘s make it short: I sold two racks to him some month ago. He was happy with the deal, resold a part (for more than what I have charged) and kept a rack of $0,50‘s.

Later he asked for my second rack of 0,50‘s, which have the same condition as the first rack. He asked again and again...

I told him that I didn’t want to sell it. He offered 250€. I said no, but since I want to sell my set I sold the rack for 300€ shipped and insured.

He knew about the condition (pics plus the first rack he has still in his possession) and now he pm‘ed me saying: Take it back or you won’t get happy anymore on PCF. I call this behavior „extortion“. Sorry, but I am done with this.
Click to expand...
At first I asked you polite to undo the deal. but you instantly rejected me by telling me, you already spend the money for other chips and I should have know it
 
It's a nobrainer. you think those chips are worth 300 euro? so take it back, because I consider them as completly useless for me
 
DerberAlter said:
I bought a first rack in march from him. some months later now I wrote him to buy a second, but better condition rack. he told me those are cherry picked, the best he had. we made a deal for 300€, which is really a lot. he had several chances to tell me about the real condtion, and to make clear, that those have cracks.

I was aware, that he was also selling a rack of those chips with cracks. but It came not in my mind, that he will sell the rack with cracks as the best rack he has
Click to expand...
 
As far as I know, nearly all of the St Joe's chips have small cracks, caused by the cancellation hot-stamping process. The cracks do not affect play.

Personally, I'd be shocked if I purchased any of these and they *didn't* have cracks.

Not that anybody asked, but imo a) the buyer should have known better than expect perfect chips, and b) the seller should refund the buyer's money less shipping costs once buyer has returned the chips (at his own expense). Nothing wrong with negating the deal, but the seller should not take a shipping loss in this instance.

However, I expect the seller to stick to his guns and refuse to refund, given his previous difficulty in unloading the chips at his asking prices. And that speaks volumes on it's own, imo.

Hope I'm wrong, and they work it out like men instead of backstabbing bitches.
 
BGinGA said:
As far as I know, nearly all of the St Joe's chips have small cracks, caused by the cancellation hot-stamping process. The cracks do not affect play.

Personally, I'd be shocked if I purchased any of these and they *didn't* have cracks.

Not that anybody asked, but imo a) the buyer should have known better than expect perfect chips
Click to expand...
from where should I know this? I started chipping 9 months ago. The first rack has no cracks. and he told me the second rack has a better condition
 
Sorry, but those who behave like that get no right just because he threatens to destroy the repurtation of many years CT and PCF.
The condition of the chips was known, since he had already bought 100 of them from me and pictures, as well as description prove this.
He really wanted the second rack, although I did not want to remove it from the set. I see nothing wrong in my actions and will not give in and because I will be denounced publicly. Everyone can read the facts (and these are also confirmed by the buyer). Accordingly one should question the behavior of derberalter times.
This will be the last public reaction to the topic. I hope that one or the other seller and buyer can understand me.
 
5aces said:
Sorry, but those who behave like that get no right just because he threatens to destroy the repurtation of many years CT and PCF.
The condition of the chips was known, since he had already bought 100 of them from me and pictures, as well as description prove this.
He really wanted the second rack, although I did not want to remove it from the set. I see nothing wrong in my actions and will not give in and because I will be denounced publicly. Everyone can read the facts (and these are also confirmed by the buyer). Accordingly one should question the behavior of derberalter times.
This will be the last public reaction to the topic. I hope that one or the other seller and buyer can understand me.
Click to expand...
This sounds awfully defensive for somebody who claims to have been honest and transparent in this transaction. I see no reason why any sale should refuse a refund if the buyer feels wronged or as though their received items we’re not as described unless a seller is trying to pawn off something at an overinflated price and doesn’t want to get stuck with it. Not calling you out as we obviously don’t have the full information, but this is how it appears from an external observer.
 
BGinGA said:
As far as I know, nearly all of the St Joe's chips have small cracks, caused by the cancellation hot-stamping process. The cracks do not affect play.

Personally, I'd be shocked if I purchased any of these and they *didn't* have cracks.

Not that anybody asked, but imo a) the buyer should have known better than expect perfect chips, and b) the seller should refund the buyer's money less shipping costs once buyer has returned the chips (at his own expense). Nothing wrong with negating the deal, but the seller should not take a shipping loss in this instance.

However, I expect the seller to stick to his guns and refuse to refund, given his previous difficulty in unloading the chips at his asking prices. And that speaks volumes on it's own, imo.

Hope I'm wrong, and they work it out like men instead of backstabbing bitches.
Click to expand...

I will say its hard to know that these chips have cracks in them for newer chippers. I have heard that some of these had cracks from the hotstamping, but was not aware that all(?) primaries had cracks. For newer chippers (and most chippers honestly) one is expecting chips without cracks at the price that was paid. What other chips are cracked anyways, so how are you supposed to know?

While I also agree that it is important for buyers to do proper research before buying, it sounds only fair that the money is refunded and the chips sent back. I think the buyer should cover shipping cost both ways though.
 
Ummm, not that it matters, but as a new chipper this is my biggest fear. I just went to the seller's post, and I can in no way see any type of damage that shows or points to cracking.
That being said, I also don't have tribal knowledge that I should expect them to be cracked. This exact scenario would suck for me, as I've jumped in with both feet, both spending quite a bit immediately, and also already attempting to help out other chippers in various facets.

If this was one of my first experiences, instead of dealing with awesome people like detroitdad, jonesey, allforcharity, abc, whitemamba, BG, and others, I GUARENTEE I would not have stayed and honestly probably ran from chipping.
 
navels said:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/by-best-offer-best-of-st-jos-frontier.41149/post-763514
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...-kind-best-out-of-thousands.40894/post-758479
Click to expand...
And there's one of those amazing chippers now, pulling in the reins on my outlandishness. I do see "$0,5 x 100 (some cracks, cancellation stamp on one side)", but Derber also mentions it wasn't off of that post.

Last thing I'll say, I guess if I see some cracks in the future I would reach out. But damn if those pictures of cracked chips look even remotely like the ones Derber received....Thanks @navels for keeping me line! (Agree with everyone else, why not just refund minus shipping?)
 
DerberAlter said:
Just received the package from @5aces

I expected to get chips in a very good condtion, for 3€/chip, but the chips have cracks! all of them!

View attachment 293928

View attachment 293929

View attachment 293931


I wrote @5aces that I don't accept this condition and I want to undo the deal, because he never told me with word or pictures about the conditon, but he rejected me instantly. I feel like I got scammed.

Some months ago, I already bought a rack of the same chips from him, for less money, but the first rack had no cracks at all.

Let's see if we can find a solution.

EDIT: should go in the mail pr0n thread. mixed both up ^^
Click to expand...
navels said:
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/by-best-offer-best-of-st-jos-frontier.41149/post-763514
https://www.pokerchipforum.com/thre...-kind-best-out-of-thousands.40894/post-758479
Click to expand...
Those two sales threads note "some" cracks in the .50 chip and the ad pictures don't show any so imo even if @DerberAlter had found them and relied on them for information of their condition he shouldn't expect to receive .50 chips that ALL have cracks as he noted in his original post. Without further information from @5aces I'm not sure there's any other choice but to refund minus shipping costs.

Hope you can both take a day or two, let it cool off, and talk again soon to resolve it.
 
He already had a rack in the same condition for weeks at home and desperately wanted to have my last rack, although I did not want to sell it. I finally sold it to him because he offered/accepted a high price for it. Is that a crime? Then please close the classifieds section.

EDIT: Actually, I did not want to write anything, but it makes me angry to see how carelessly some react without knowing or considering the context. I have definitely not concealed the condition of any inexperienced member!
 
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5aces said:
He already had a rack in the same condition for weeks at home and desperately wanted to have my last rack, although I did not want to sell it. I finally sold it to him because he offered/accepted a high price for it. Is that a crime? Then please close the classifieds section.

EDIT: Actually, I did not want to write anything, but it makes me angry to see how carelessly some react without knowing or considering the context. I have definitely not concealed the condition of any inexperienced member!
Click to expand...
@5aces, the right thing to do here is refund the chip purchase (minus your shipping costs) after the buyer has returned the chips to you. You will not be out any money, you will be free to sell them again (or keep them, since you didn't want to sell them in the first place), you will have taken the high moral ground, and your reputation here will remain unblemished. Sounds like a big win all around for you.
 

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