Cash Game Starting stack for low stakes cash games? (1 Viewer)

[Sparkynutz]

What would your Ideal starting stack be for $5, $10, $20, $40, $50 for 8 players

Requirements-
Use the color and chips I already have.
Labeled as is if possible unless worth changing.
Dollar for Dollar amounts including 5c as lowest.
Actual cash value only. No $25 bill
Value options 5c, 10c, 25c, 50c, $1, $2, $5, $10, $20, optional $50? $100?

27 chip stack or less for the $5 would be ideal but not required. I have an 8 player wooden carousel that holds 27 chips per stack I'd like to have set up ready to grab and play.
What I currently have on hand to work with exactly. I just counted. My numbers on other thread were off.
199 white 5c with 130 unlabeled
151 blue 10c with 42 unlabeled
100 red 25c with 52 unlabeled
50 green 50c with 44 unlabeled
50 orange $1 no extra on hand this color
17 yellow unlabeled, 17 dark orange unlabeled.
17 black $5 with 83 unlabeled
10 grey $20 with 31 unlabeled
17 pink unlabeled
17 purple unlabeled
17 Teal unlabeled

If you could use any color I have for any denomination and make best use of the chips and qty, what would you use for starting stacks and have for available rebuys?
Is changing labeling from current worth the amount of work? (ink stamped both sides) Acetone, clean and restamp. How is the new stack beneficial or why?

Best idea I can come up with is
re-label the blue chips 25c eliminating 10c chips
Make the red chips $1 instead of 25c
Make the green chips $5 instead of 50c
Make all grey chips $20

End result bankroll could be-
300 white 5c
200 blue 25c (if I find 7 or more blue chips)
150 red $1
75 green $5
40 grey $20
10 pink $50
10 Teal $100

or if I re-label nothing and keep as is eliminating blue 10c and green 50c
200 5c
100 25c
50 $1
10 $5
10 $20
$335 total seems low ish

 

[Trihonda]

OK, some basic chip gospel...

In general chips should have a purpose, and that's as a stand-in for value (whether it's tournament play credits or actual cash value).

Creating a solid chipset breakdown requires factoring a number of things. Efficiency and Playability and Cost (and design if going custom). Bear with me, I'm pulling all this stuff outta thin air.. probably gonna miss something:

Efficiency is accomplishing the desired task with the fewest chips practical. This often helps with the cost of a new set, and also with efficiency and speed of play running a game with fewer chips. Realistically, you don't need that many of the small blind denominations to create an effective and efficient set.

Another aspect of efficiency is the rule of 4/5x. That means it's inefficient to have chips in play that are less than 4 or 5 times the amount of the previous denomination. For instance, normal casino progression (1/5/25/100/500). Its just more efficient (and bonus, it plays better too). In your set, the 5c and 10c chips are redundant, and I'd scrap the 10c & 50c chips.


Playability is crafting a set to play a certain way. Starting chip stacks can greatly alter how people play a game. For example. It's johnny's 2nd buyin in a .25/.50 game, and you just run out of quarter chips, so you issue out stacks of $5 chips. Johnny's turn to act, he's normally raises to $2.50, but with only $5 chips, he just bets $5. People often alter their play somewhat based on the chips they have in front of them. Just like how having a towers and towers of chips can be fun, you've already discovered how this can slow the game.

So, issue out chips based on how you'd like the game to be played (though of course some players gonna just do whatever, and all your planning goes to hell).

I've been a huge advocate for my cash games starting with full barrels of chips where possible, so for a $60 buyin, I do $.25/1/5. in 20/20/7 stacks. The full barrels are super easy to dispense. And I have great chips I love see hitting the felt. However, that said, I recognize that that often hinders playability somewhat. And when we get to the later rebuy stages and bets are getting bigger, I'll color up some of the quarter chips. They don't see much play.

The other aspects are cost, and if you have chips already, then you're doing ok. I'm guessing there isn't a person on this site that'd wanna wager (and we're all gambolers) that you are still using 5c dice chips a year from now. Just a guess... So when you buy a newer set, you'll probably want to factor in efficiency to get the most bang (bank) for your buck.

Design. This is more for custom sets, but since you're talking about relabeling chips, let's talk colors. If you've spent any time here, there's no shortage of wild and differing color schemes for chips. Part of me says, do what you like, what suits your tastes, but the practical side of me says to keep it fairly consistent with the normal chip color configurations (for your newer players). So I'd do blue for $.25, white for $1, and red for $5, and green for $25. There's obviously some flexibility, but I'd for sure keep red/5 and green/25 if you're trying to grow your game in an unknown player base.

 

[Trihonda]

For a $5 cash game, I might consider this:

5x5c = 25c (orange)
11x25c = $2.75 (blue)
2x$1 = $2 (white)

Rebuys with all whites

18 chips. Fits into a chip rack.

For $20 cash game:

5x5c = 25c (orange)
15x25c = $3.75 (blue)
16x$1 = $1 (white) (or 5x$1 + 2x$5)

for a $40 cash game and up (consider raising stakes to $.25/.50:

5x5c = 25c (orange)
11x25c = $2.75 (blue)
7x$1 = $7 (white)
6x$5 = $30 (red)

 

[coledtran]

If you consider a .25/.25 for $20, this is what I run…

24/ 25¢
11/$1 & 1/$5 or 16/$1

Has worked well for my group as we like having lots of chips in front of us

 

[Alex Lundstrum]

I would go with relabeling:

Color	Value	Count
Black	5¢	100
Blue	25¢	193
White	$1	329
Red	$5	152
Grey	$20	41
Total	$1,962.25	815

This is a solid bank and solid number of chips for all of the stakes you have listed.

As for limiting to a 27-chip starting stack, most people here will agree that you should have MOAR CHIPS.

I did my best at starting stacks for each buy-in you have listed (I assumed a 100BB buy-in, if you want to go deeper, add some higher value chips and/or trade some low value for some high value).

Color	Suggested Value	$5 Buy-in, 5¢/5¢	$10 Buy-in, 5¢/10¢	$20 Buy-in, 10¢/25¢	$50 Buy-in, 25¢/50¢	$100 Buy-in, 50¢/$1
Black	5¢	10	10	5
Blue	25¢	14	10	7	8	4
White	$1	1	7	13	8	9
Red	$5			1	8	10
Grey	$20					2
Total		25	27	26	24	25

 

[Sparkynutz]

OK, some basic chip gospel...

In general chips should have a purpose, and that's as a stand-in for value (whether it's tournament play credits or actual cash value).

Creating a solid chipset breakdown requires factoring a number of things. Efficiency and Playability and Cost (and design if going custom). Bear with me, I'm pulling all this stuff outta thin air.. probably gonna miss something:

Efficiency is accomplishing the desired task with the fewest chips practical. This often helps with the cost of a new set, and also with efficiency and speed of play running a game with fewer chips. Realistically, you don't need that many of the small blind denominations to create an effective and efficient set.

Another aspect of efficiency is the rule of 4/5x. That means it's inefficient to have chips in play that are less than 4 or 5 times the amount of the previous denomination. For instance, normal casino progression (1/5/25/100/500). Its just more efficient (and bonus, it plays better too). In your set, the 5c and 10c chips are redundant, and I'd scrap the 10c & 50c chips.


Playability is crafting a set to play a certain way. Starting chip stacks can greatly alter how people play a game. For example. It's johnny's 2nd buyin in a .25/.50 game, and you just run out of quarter chips, so you issue out stacks of $5 chips. Johnny's turn to act, he's normally raises to $2.50, but with only $5 chips, he just bets $5. People often alter their play somewhat based on the chips they have in front of them. Just like how having a towers and towers of chips can be fun, you've already discovered how this can slow the game.

So, issue out chips based on how you'd like the game to be played (though of course some players gonna just do whatever, and all your planning goes to hell).

I've been a huge advocate for my cash games starting with full barrels of chips where possible, so for a $60 buyin, I do $.25/1/5. in 20/20/7 stacks. The full barrels are super easy to dispense. And I have great chips I love see hitting the felt. However, that said, I recognize that that often hinders playability somewhat. And when we get to the later rebuy stages and bets are getting bigger, I'll color up some of the quarter chips. They don't see much play.

The other aspects are cost, and if you have chips already, then you're doing ok. I'm guessing there isn't a person on this site that'd wanna wager (and we're all gambolers) that you are still using 5c dice chips a year from now. Just a guess... So when you buy a newer set, you'll probably want to factor in efficiency to get the most bang (bank) for your buck.

Design. This is more for custom sets, but since you're talking about relabeling chips, let's talk colors. If you've spent any time here, there's no shortage of wild and differing color schemes for chips. Part of me says, do what you like, what suits your tastes, but the practical side of me says to keep it fairly consistent with the normal chip color configurations (for your newer players). So I'd do blue for $.25, white for $1, and red for $5, and green for $25. There's obviously some flexibility, but I'd for sure keep red/5 and green/25 if you're trying to grow your game in an unknown player base.

Thankyou so much for the color input Trihonda, and Alex for the fancy chart. Wow!
I just took acetone to a few of my chips. Didn't get label off. Tried Videojet makeup fluid that I knew would. Well... it took it off and ate a layer off the chip in one swipe.
Lastly, tried plastic friendly electrical contact cleaner. It took the label 95% ish off with minimal rubbing and should be adequate.
My wife has some fancy silver markers, good handwriting and offered to label them all for me by hand so I didn't have to stamp them all. A test on a dark blue chip looked awesome! Much better than the black I had on it for the last 20 years that was hard to read.

Back to colors.
I was hoping to not redo the white but It is what I have the most chips of so making them $1 kinda does make sense.
So with the colors you suggested I would have-
50 orange 5c
200 blue 25c
300 white $1
100 red $5
50 green $20
Should I make Black, Grey or another color $50 or 100?
The Black would look sharp with the silver numbers but maybe you know what colors are more commonly used for what.
I do only have 50 orange and 90 of the black. Would it be better to use black for 5c?

 

[Trihonda]

I didn't see that you had 100 black chips total. I like orange from a color standpoint for a 5c chip. I think you're going to quickly outgrow it tho... From a numbers standpoint, I like the black as the 5c.

TBH, I'm assuming these are slugged plastic dice style chips... so, use the blk for the 5c now, and don't worry about the hundo chip. I mean, by the time you're needing a $100 chip, you'll have long since forgotten about this set... Just sayin

And also, if you're dead set on doing tourneys, you can always find dice chip sets on FB for like $20. Or go with a cheaper set online in the $100-200 range. When you get to that point, talk to us, and we'll get you squared away with a decent breakdown.

A decent tourney set breakdown usually looks like this:

Poker Chip Setup
		Quantity	Total Values
Denom	Color	0	600	$0	$290,000
$25	Green		160	0​	$4,000​
$100	Black		160	0​	$16,000​
$500	Purple		180	0​	$90,000​
$1,000	Yellow		80	0​	$80,000​
$5,000	Orange		20	0​	$100,000​
$10,000				0​	$0​
				0​	$0​

	Tournament Startup		20	Players
Denom	Quantity	Value	# Chips	Quantity	Value	# Chips
$25	8	$200	160	8	$200	160
$100	8	$800	160	8	$800	160
$500	8	$4,000	160	8	$4,000	160
$1,000	2	$2,000	40	2	$2,000	40
$5,000	1	$5,000	20		$0	0
		$0	0		$0	0
		$0	0		$0	0
Totals	27	$12,000.00​	540	26	$7,000.00​	520

 

[Sparkynutz]

I would go with relabeling:

Color	Value	Count
Black	5¢	100
Blue	25¢	193
White	$1	329
Red	$5	152
Grey	$20	41
Total	$1,962.25	815

This is a solid bank and solid number of chips for all of the stakes you have listed.

As for limiting to a 27-chip starting stack, most people here will agree that you should have MOAR CHIPS.

I did my best at starting stacks for each buy-in you have listed (I assumed a 100BB buy-in, if you want to go deeper, add some higher value chips and/or trade some low value for some high value).

Color	Suggested Value	$5 Buy-in, 5¢/5¢	$10 Buy-in, 5¢/10¢	$20 Buy-in, 10¢/25¢	$50 Buy-in, 25¢/50¢	$100 Buy-in, 50¢/$1
Black	5¢	10	10	5
Blue	25¢	14	10	7	8	4
White	$1	1	7	13	8	9
Red	$5			1	8	10
Grey	$20					2
Total		25	27	26	24	25

I'm working on removing the labels. It's proving a bigger pain than anticipated.
Can you elaborate on how you came up with the count numbers in the first chart for how many of each color I need?

I seen a few charts/threads that said something along lines of keeping enough chips for 10 players on hand and about $2k worth of bankroll give or take just in case.
If I call it quits cleaning off existing chips and sell some as labeled for someone else to use and try and find some more blank (yes, dice chips) in white, black, and red to bump up my numbers later on.
What I have now if I don't clean more chips-

50 orange 5c
100 blue 25c
150 white $1
100 red $5
25 green $20
20 Grey $50
10 Black $100

 

[Sparkynutz]

I found the poker chip calculator thing on here. Just in case I get more players ever
I am trying to have on hand more chips of each color or for rebuys.
I am robbing my blank roulette chips and eventually replacing with a different style chip for safety sake.
It looks like either way I will need to buy more chips of atleast one odd color for the 5c chip.

5c x 200 What color should this be?
I have 75 light blue and 75 pink that were not mentioned above for a specific value.
Also 100 grey on hand.
My odd orange I have 50 of is out since I can't find any more of that shade anywhere.
If I do high stakes tournament ever I have 100 yellow and 75 regular orange already on hand from my roulette set included in below chip count. Another reason I'd rather not use 2 oranges that could get mixed or confusing. Black is also out for 5c because I will use it for the $100 chip.
5c x ??? x 200
25c blue x 200
$1 white x 300
$5 red x 300
$20 green x 200
$100 black x 100
$500 purple x 100
$1k Yellow x100
$5k Orange x 100
Is there a 10k or 20k color? Pink or grey by chance?
I need to buy more of whatever 5c chip color is and 25 orange.
I'm thinking I will use 100ct trays as it makes counting or not having to count easier than my old cases that hold odd amounts each row.
An even $20 is also 27 chips to fit carousel for 8 guys at start.
I'll start with $20 minimum and make life easier instead of trying to accommodate $5 -$10 players.
any buy in over $20 can easily be taken from racks of $1s and 5's or rebuys with a larger chip.

 

[Pinesol13]

Just to throw my 2cents in. I used to count out starting stacks for my cash game (25c/50c), but at some point I stopped. Now the first 5 players to arrive get a full barrel (20) of quarters and a full barrel of $1's, then enough $5's to get them to their buy-in amount. The next 4 players get their buy-in in $1's and $5's, and they make change at the table. Any rebuys are usually done with $5's and $20's, sometimes some $1's, but never quarters.

So, for 8 players I don't think you need any more than

5c x100
25c x100 (120 or 140 might be better, but you can do 100 no problem)
$1 x140
$5 x 80
$20/$25 x 40
$100 x20

 

[Sparkynutz]

Thats a great idea I didn't think of!
Nobody ever shows up on time. Whoever comes later gets all 1's and 5s then they can make their own change leaving less small crap on table to count.

 

[Beakertwang]

Just to throw my 2cents in. I used to count out starting stacks for my cash game (25c/50c), but at some point I stopped. Now the first 5 players to arrive get a full barrel (20) of quarters and a full barrel of $1's, then enough $5's to get them to their buy-in amount. The next 4 players get their buy-in in $1's and $5's, and they make change at the table. Any rebuys are usually done with $5's and $20's, sometimes some $1's, but never quarters.

So, for 8 players I don't think you need any more than

5c x100
25c x100 (120 or 140 might be better, but you can do 100 no problem)
$1 x140
$5 x 80
$20/$25 x 40
$100 x20

I popped in to say basically the same thing. My group plays 5¢/10¢, typically a $20 buy-in. Let’s say I’m expecting 8 players. I’m giving the first 3 to arrive 20/20/14. Next guys get 20/15–same for rebuys until all the quarters are gone. Later rebuys will be all in $1’s, and some $5’s if necessary. I’ll only add more nickels if it seems like too much change is being made. This works great.

 

[detroitdad]

For our $100 buy ins I go with a

12 x .25
17 x 1
16 x 5.

Rebuys are done in fives until I run out. Then I move onto the 20/25's.

What I like about this breakdown is I get all of the quarters and ones that I want on the table with the initial starting stacks. Plus I can cut out 7 starting stacks and it looks great in a pic lol.

 

[detroitdad]

The only exception to my starting stack above is when I use these wonderful chips. The 20s need to be on the felt right from the get-go.

 

[Pinesol13]

Another thing I wanted to mention. It seems you are set on relabeling the chips you have (and buying more to label to fill your set). A couple of things to consider:

- The time it will take to remove the labels
- The time it will take to relabel
- Time & Money spent finding more of the same chips to complete your set, and then labeling those.


vs.

- buy new, inexpensive, China Clay chips with the denominations already on them ($30 - $70).
- You could sell your current dice chips to offset the cost
- Your players will, most likely, love the new chips. Offers a more casino like experience.


I bet you'd end up only spending $20 or so, not to mention how much of your time would be saved. Just a thought.

 

[Alex Lundstrum]

Can you elaborate on how you came up with the count numbers in the first chart for how many of each color I need?

The counts I had listed were just the sum of the labeled and unlabeled in the OP. A common cash set breakdown of 1000 that you'll see here is 100/200/400/200/100 which allows for a wide variety of games. The colors I picked were based on:

1 - Your available chip counts and
2 - Somewhat on "standard" chip colors

If you are looking to make this an effective set for all of the stakes you have listed, I wouldn't go much below 100/160/200/100/40 (or what you have, close enough), which given the values listed, gives you a total bank of $1,545. This may be a bit light, I'd go with 100/200/300/160/40 for a bank of $1,955.

I seen a few charts/threads that said something along lines of keeping enough chips for 10 players on hand and about $2k worth of bankroll give or take just in case.

If you only ever plan on having a single table, then you only need enough of your smallest chips to cover initial buy-ins. After that, there will be plenty on the table. I've found it is nice to have a few extra of your second denomination to give out for the first few re-buys. After that, re-buys can be made with your third denomination until those are gone, then use your value chips (highest value chips).

As far as total bankroll that you should have, I've always aimed for 3 x full buy-ins x total players: you likely won't ever hit this mark unless the game is super-duper spewy, but better safe than sorry. With your largest game listed at a $100 buy-in, that comes to $3,000, so your bank is a little light for your highest game, but I am assuming play would be tighter as your group would be at the top of their buy-in range, so the ~$2,000 bank will do just fine. For any of the other buy-ins listed, you'll have no issue.

 

[Sparkynutz]

I ordered a few more chips and have the following colors and in process of labeling them.

5c Light Blue x200 =$10
25c Dark Blue x300 =$75
$1 White x400 =$400
$5 Red x200 =$1000
$20 Green x50 =$1000
$100 Black plaques x10 =$1000
Total Bankroll $3485


I'm tempted to go with plaques for the $20 chips too. We'll see how these go the next few parties first.

I also have
$100 Black x400
$500 Purple x125
$1000 Yellow x125
$5,000 Orange x125
$10,000 Pink x125
$50,000 Grey x100

Think that would work for tournament set and keep same chip type?

 

[UncleMarlin]

Thought I’d give my input just from personal experience. I’ve got about 6-8 buddies that I regularly play $10 buy in with. Most people suggest starting with mostly quarters but I’ve found for our 5c/10c game where we’re all kinda stingy this was the best breakdown:

x20 .05
x16 .25
x5 1.00

I know it’s a lot of nickels but this has definitely produced the best results for our group. Before we played with x10 .05 and x18 .25 and people frequently needed to buy nickels off each other. I’m very much not an expert but seems to work for us.

 

[Sparkynutz]

I picked up some more chips and got everything labeled.
Final bankroll-
5c Light Blue x200
25c Dark Blue x400
$1 White x300
$5 Red x200
$20 Green x50
$100 Black plaques x10

The only thing I may change is to swap the $20 chips for plaques, but that will get expensive fast.
We'll see how the next game goes using the chips how I reconfigured denoms.

I think I should have enough for two tables if needed now with this breakdown.

 

[VulgarrViking]

Thats a great idea I didn't think of!
Nobody ever shows up on time. Whoever comes later gets all 1's and 5s then they can make their own change leaving less small crap on table to count.

I give a couple of bonus chips as an incentive for players that show up on time.
Also another bonus chip to those that have exact change for their buy-in.