Tahoe Pitch and Roll: To Split or Not To Split Aces (1 Viewer)

[abby99]

During a round of Tahoe Pitch and Roll* at @detroitdad's game earlier this month, a few of us started to discuss which card to roll when dealt two aces. Depending on the third card, a player either rolls one of the aces or keeps them both as down cards. Although the decision is informed by the third card, I suspect that players have a tendency to split or not to split aces.

In general, is it advantageous to split aces or keep both face down? Please discuss.

*Tahoe Pitch and Roll is a variant of 7-card Stud High/Low, 8 qualifier. Initially, each player is dealt 4 cards face down. The first action is to discard one card and to "roll" or expose one card (Third Street). After the roll, it plays like 7-card Stud High/Low except that Fourth Street and Fifth Street are dealt together (reducing the number of betting rounds from five to four), and Seventh Street is dealt face up.

 

[Kain8]

I think this highly depends if you have another wheel card or not. If you're dealt something like AAK9, you chuck the 9, and show an ace. If you're dealt AA3K, I'm for sure keeping my aces hidden, and showing the trey.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Yeah, what @Kain8 said. Hide the aces if it allows you to appear that you're going low only. Show an ace if your third card would reveal that you're probably only shooting for the high half of the pot.

A lot of advantage can be had in Stud 8 when your opponents can't be sure which half of the pot you're going for.

 

[Rhodeman77]

I would do exactly as @Kain8 suggested. I’d prefer to hide the strength of my high hand, but as long as I have any other card 8 or lower to show I will expose that first. I want to show a low card. If my hand looks like a high hand only it is harder to put pressure on other hands.

 

[DrStrange]

Deception is very valuable in stud/8. Some of the best money comes when you locked one way and the rest of the table is either still drawing or better, the table misunderstand which way you are headed. Not nearly so profitable when the 7th card is exposed - your five card board is telling too much of the story. On a lucky day you are holding top set and look like your are going low or are actually going low plus top set.

The aces should be buried. Your door card < first face up card > greatly affects how the hand will play. A small card, the smaller the better, is best. Ace - Ace - brick is almost a fold. A pair of aces is nothing but trouble unimproved. You do not want to get deep enough into a hand where it makes "sense" to hope aces somehow win the high hand if you only have to pay a bet or two.

I would play most pairs the same way - bury the pair and show an unpaired card.

I would have to consider the rest of the hands and the suits if holding three low including an ace. Might be some deception to showing the ace, might not.

 

[v1pe]

Deception is very valuable in stud/8. Some of the best money comes when you locked one way and the rest of the table is either still drawing or better, the table misunderstand which way you are headed. Not nearly so profitable when the 7th card is exposed - your five card board is telling too much of the story. On a lucky day you are holding top set and look like your are going low or are actually going low plus top set.

The aces should be buried. Your door card < first face up card > greatly affects how the hand will play. A small card, the smaller the better, is best. Ace - Ace - brick is almost a fold. A pair of aces is nothing but trouble unimproved. You do not want to get deep enough into a hand where it makes "sense" to hope aces somehow win the high hand if you only have to pay a bet or two.

I would play most pairs the same way - bury the pair and show an unpaired card.

I would have to consider the rest of the hands and the suits if holding three low including an ace. Might be some deception to showing the ace, might not.

What's considered a "brick"? 6-9, maybe 10 or J as well?

 

[detroitdad]

I don't have an answer. I don't think I have ever won a single pot (or half a pot) in this game.

 

[Jimulacrum]

What's considered a "brick"? 6-9, maybe 10 or J as well?

Aside from an ace, any card 9 or higher is a brick. (Even an 8 isn't great, but it still keeps you looking like you may qualify for the low.)

 

[TheBigTater]

Most of the time I'm wanting to show/represent a low hand early. It would depend on what the third card is... but if I don't have another low card to roll then rolling one of the aces is just a little better since it is a 2 way card and will somewhat keep opponents guessing as to which way you are going in the early rounds.

 

[v1pe]

Aside from an ace, any card 9 or higher is a brick. (Even an 8 isn't great, but it still keeps you looking like you may qualify for the low.)

AAK or AAQ is considered a foldable hand? Simply because we are that unlikely to make a low?

 

[Jimulacrum]

AAK or AAQ is considered a foldable hand? Simply because we are that unlikely to make a low?

It can be playable in the right circumstances, but it's marginal.

You need a perfect runout to catch any kind of low, which is pretty rare. Chasing only half the pot from the beginning is not a winning strategy at this game.

Think about it this way: if another player catches a low and you can't, he has half the pot locked up and gets to freeroll you for the other half all the way through seventh street. That can be as many as three rounds of big bets for you to show your hand down.

There are very few playable openers that don't consist of three to a low, and most of them are rolled-up trips.

 

[Burke]

Aren't you assuming that a low qualifies?

 

[DrStrange]

AAx where x is a card 9 - K might be good for one street. Here you get 4th and 5th street for a single round of betting. But after that a pair of aces isn't likely to be winning any big pots. So I would call a reasonable [ i.e. small ] bet after the roll but muck it unimproved.

 

[bivey]

Like most/all forms of poker, there are few truly advantageous starting hands. Playing too many hands from the get go is a recipe for ruin and frustration in this game.

 

[Kain8]

Like most/all forms of poker, there are few truly advantageous starting hands. Playing too many hands from the get go is a recipe for ruin and frustration in this game.

Winning at poker is fun, but playing winning poker is anything but.

 

[v1pe]

Winning at poker is fun, but playing winning poker is anything but.

Haha, I couldn't disagree more

 

[WedgeRock]

I don't think I have ever won a single pot (or half a pot) in this game.

I think I may have identified your leak at this game, @detroitdad...

Playing too many hands from the get go is a recipe for ruin and frustration in this game.