Term: Angle, Angling (1 Viewer)
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LeLe
4 of a Kind
What is meant by the word angling?
In poker, the term "angling" is meant to describe an unethical play that is used to gain an advantage over another player.
In poker, the term "angling" is meant to describe an unethical play that is used to gain an advantage over another player.
bergs
Royal Flush
There are different degrees of angling IMO. Anything from pretty mild but unethical (cupping cards and waiting until action down the table after you before acting) and super blatant (outright cheating, telling people you didn’t look at your hole cards when you did) and breaking the rules (example - forward chip motions, hiding big chips behind your workhorse stacks, etc).
OP
OP
Interesting, you would consider this actual cheating, not lying? Is lying cheating?
What about 'Wait have you guys looked at your cards?!' which would imply you hadn't?
OP
OP
I think the range in definition here is too broad, a slippery slope with too wide an inclusion to define or be helpful.
It would land us on earth, but you'd be most likely to land in the ocean. Wait would that be called 'Ocean-ing' since it's not on land, $%# I know nothing!
Maybe with a small addition:
In poker, the term "angling" is meant to describe an unethical play that is used to gain an unfair advantage over another player.
OP
OP
Ultimately, I think this lands us at citing a seasoned player that has played a lifetime is angling by playing with new players.
The point of contention would be, is it unethical for me not to get up from a table when fish sits down? If I don't get up, am I angling at that point?
And?!! can you cite an example of an unfair advantage that wouldn't be considered cheating?
No. Perhaps it’s possible to argue that it’s unethical in some sense to take advantage of lesser skilled players and win their money, but it can’t really be considered an unfair advantage to use one’s skills in a game.
Legend5555
Full House
Angling is not cheating. I think that needs to be made clear.
Angling is intentionally using the rules and/or abusing someone's lack of rules knowledge to gain an edge. Angling falls within that "technically allowed but bad form" realm.
Angling is intentionally using the rules and/or abusing someone's lack of rules knowledge to gain an edge. Angling falls within that "technically allowed but bad form" realm.
YES! Exactly this.
I don’t think there’s a good answer to the poll.
Nanook
Full House
Pretty much this is it
slowroll, playing out of turn, etc
Agreed combine this with lele's answer and from me that is it, spot on
Poll does not have a great answer included in it.
louBdub
4 of a Kind
I agree with half of you.
(Angle shot at all of you)
(Angle shot at all of you)
bernielomax
Full House
Lele's seems to be the best definition.
I have always associated angling with:
A player says "check" and then proceeds to change his/her mind and bet.
or
A player verbally says bet X amount, then proceeds to change his/her mind with a check.
These two examples may be what's called an "angle shoot"? Would this be a separate term or just a variation of angling?
I have always associated angling with:
A player says "check" and then proceeds to change his/her mind and bet.
or
A player verbally says bet X amount, then proceeds to change his/her mind with a check.
These two examples may be what's called an "angle shoot"? Would this be a separate term or just a variation of angling?
The test is not so much what he does but why he does it and what he expects the result to be. If he makes either move with the hope or confidence that the rules will support his unethical play, then it is an angle.
OfficerLovejoy
Full House
I can give you an easy example I've seen happen.
2/4 game nlhe played in a casino in Germany.
Utg raises to 12 using a €2 and a €10 chip.
CO and BTN call.
SB throws a €50 chip on top of his €2 chip that was already out there as his small blind.
Dealer says: raise - €52.
SB says, "oh no, I meant to call! But yeah one chip rule doesn't apply here because of the two chips, I get it."
Gets two callers, checkraises flop all in and gets called. Shows aces and grins smugly.
This is all within the rules and actually abusing the rules to mislead the other players.
An angle to me is everything that is done technically within the rules that you intentionally do to get an unfair advantage over another player.
2/4 game nlhe played in a casino in Germany.
Utg raises to 12 using a €2 and a €10 chip.
CO and BTN call.
SB throws a €50 chip on top of his €2 chip that was already out there as his small blind.
Dealer says: raise - €52.
SB says, "oh no, I meant to call! But yeah one chip rule doesn't apply here because of the two chips, I get it."
Gets two callers, checkraises flop all in and gets called. Shows aces and grins smugly.
This is all within the rules and actually abusing the rules to mislead the other players.
An angle to me is everything that is done technically within the rules that you intentionally do to get an unfair advantage over another player.
Nanook
Full House
Both are the same thing & btw, the video you linked is exactly what an angle or angle shoot is. Totally and completely lame, but no rule says that if you do something like this you are kicked from the tournament or you lose the hand or anything like that. The floor followed procedure and enforced the rule as it should have been enforced. Verbal is binding so his first "Raise" is binding and everything he said after that is just part of his angle and is irrelevant.
Of course bluffing could be, and is called lying by some and some people will say that since bluffing is lying other such lying is/should be permitted. Another example of this would be when you get to showdown and sometimes people are a little reluctant to show their hands and someone in late position say they have a hand that they don't actually have in hopes that the early position player will muck their cards and they won't have to show their hand. If caught, they will just say "oops, I misread my hand"
My example is a more extreme example of angle shooting and in my opinion much closer to actual cheating, however it is always possible that someone did in fact mis-read their hand. After all, who hasn't... Never the less none of these things fall into the spirit of "fair play" and are totally unethical, at least in my opinion.
OP
OP
I was going to ask what you meant by slowroll as an unfair advantage, but I think you sum it up in your latest post.
'Slowroll' isn't quite the term, but we don't have a term for miss calling your hand, waiting until you have to roll it over and not have what you said you have.
OP
OP
Thanks Everyone for voting - Special Thanks for these quality submissions, please continue to contribute.
This is really great; I like to add an example and I think this clear and on point!
This is really great; I like to add an example and I think this clear and on point!
umbkcshah
Two Pair
This varies by room. TDA would rule this a call I believe. Common angles taking advantage of room specific rules such as 'all chips over being line in pot when cutting out' forward motion/betting line shenanigans, etc.
Rule 44
“If facing a bet or blind, pushing out a single oversized chip (including your last chip) is a call if raise isn’t first declared. To raise with an overchip you must declare raise before the chip hits the table surface.“
https://www.pokertda.com/view-poker-tda-rules/
bergs
Royal Flush
Someone repeatedly flashes their cards next to you after you warn them to protect their hand. Using that information isn’t angling, particularly if you’ve already warned them that they’re flashing their hand and you’re not trying to look.
ekricket
Royal Flush
Fake Angling
bergs
Royal Flush
Well, it’s an unfair advantage that isn’t considering cheating. That’s the question I was answering.
OfficerLovejoy
Full House
Now that I think about it:
He might've picked up his small blind and threw it back in with the €50 chip saying call after the chips hit the felt. And then the dealer declared "raise 52".
He explained putting in the €2 and the €50 chips with "I wanted to make it easier to make change"
It was really scummy and I felt the need to shower after witnessing it.
ekricket
Royal Flush
It’s cool. But isn’t there a rule somewhere that if you see another’s cards your hand is dead?
I was in a casino one time with a friend, tournament, and the dealer dealt a hand out, and before my friend cab even pick his cards up the dealer reached over and said “your hand is dead sir” and mucked his hand. My friend was speechless. The dealer saw this and said “when I was dealing I noticed I dealt one card to your neighbor that you could see because of the pitch. Therefore your hand is dead.” My friend called the floor who backed the dealer up. Bad ruling?
bergs
Royal Flush
Never heard of that before in my life. Awful rule. My hand is dead because the dealer is an incompetent pitcher? Weird.
bergs
Royal Flush
Even worse if the dealer can declare your hand dead if someone else flashes you their hand. The opportunity for a pair of people angling at a final table is considerable.
OfficerLovejoy
Full House
Yup, just put someone else all in with air, have your buddy who is first to act show his cards to villain, he folds, villains hand is dead and you win the pot.
ekricket
Royal Flush
I agree. Only time I’ve ever seen that. We did have some experience with this dealer though, he was a strict ass who liked to read the rules and enforce vague or rarely encountered situations. Good I’m done ways, as it kept things moving at a respectable pace, but pain in the ass when he pulled something obscure
This is gamesmanship and I laugh every time I see this video
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