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[LeLe]

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[OfficerLovejoy]

Online Poker 50c/50c Stake, been playing for a while some of the Players are in the deeper stack of 300-350++ BB

Player stacks: | #UTG Hero ($188.22) | #UTG+1 ($154.11) | #1MP ($38.59) | #CO ($142.48) | #Button ($39.37) | #SB ($102.75) | #BB ($84.48)

Hero being at UTG was dealt

Your hand is A♥, 3♦

fold

I choose to Limp and Call 50c, and want to see the action as A3o is not that good to start with raise and good to see to the flop at the Right price.

chances are, you're gonna play the rest of the hand out of position and you're never gonna be sure where you are in the hand. A3o is easily dominated and what I would call a trash hand UTG.

UTG+1 raises to 2.50

fold to The Button who also Call

SB Fold, BB Call and i Called the raise

4 way to the flop with the pot at $10.50 now

fold, now you know you're out of position vs 2 players who think their hand was strong enough to raise / cold call a raise respectively. There is no chance you're not massively behind here and again, your position will make sure you lose the max.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Flop: [6♦, 3♣, 8♥]

BB Check, so do the Hero Check to the preflop raiser

yes, check

UTG+1 Bet $6.00

Button Calls $6.00

BB Folds

Hero folds.
UTG can still have all the overpairs and what is deeply concerning is the button calling again. No flushdraws means, he probably connected with this board somehow that hits his cold calling range pretty well. He could already be trapping with a set, 2 pair or a combo draw. Your bottom pair is probably not good here and even if it were right now. You're still out of position and will have to make some hard decisions down the road unless you spike another of two 3s. Just fold.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

I’d fold pre. I’d definitely fold to the raise after the limp. Even if you hit an ace, how good are you going to feel about it?

After the flop, with the cbet and a call, I’m out. But maybe I’m a nit.

 

[boltonguy]

Fold pre (dont limp), fold to raise pre. Fold flop.
Not looking to spend $ on A3o pre and then on flop with bottom pair and a weak ace we probably need 2 pair (so 3 outs) or runner runner 3s to get there (one more out) so we have 4 outs = fold. Especially multi-way.

 

[shorticus]

Pre-flop UTG: Fold
After raise: Fold Preflop
Post Flop: Fold Preflop
Post Flop After Bet: Fold Preflop

 

[LeLe]

Comment Deleted

 

[LeLe]

Comment Deleted

 

[boltonguy]

It a game between regular the two tightest player happen on be on my right so i been adjusting my play by limp a lot more and C/R whenever i at UTG position

It no wrong to not limp in most occasion

I have a very loose home game where I have opened up and begun limping hands preflop that play well multi-way. My rule is that if I am first in, I will raise. If I am not first in, and players before me I will limp with hand that I feel play well multi-way like 67s for example. So I do agree that it isnt fair to say that limping is always wrong.

However I wouldnt personally limp A3o as I think it doesnt play well multiway. If you hit top pair or top trips, you have a real risk of being out-kicked. If you pair your 3, you are often losing to a better pair, either PP or made hand. To win you need 2 pair or trip 3s which are low odds hands. So I dont think I hit enought to recover the cost of the limp with this specific hand.

 

[grebe]

FOLD>Raise>call. You chose the worst thing you could do right off the bat. Fold pre and it's not even close. Justifying limping will not cut it. The rest of the hand is just you trying to work yourself out of the hole you dug. Every play is fold.

Listen, you want to call UTG with a BAD, BAD ace...that's fine. But please DO NOT think this is in any way winning or strategic poker. It's just straight up bad poker. But please, continue to do so, because the world needs fish too.

 

[DrStrange]

SO . . . .

how many times and ways can I say fold? Let's see, twice preflop, check/fold flop, check/fold turn. Who knows about the river?

There is almost always an issue trying to discuss a bluff hand. If it fails, hero was foolhardy. If it works, Hero is a genius. Much more so when Hero is starting out the hand planning on a big bluff as the main way to win a significant pot.

Also, let's not confuse well played / poorly played with won the pot / lost the pot.

Hero is off on an "adventure" I wish him good fortune. -=- DrStrange

PS Don't skip past the preflop. Key decisions start there. And slower please. The hand is almost over and it has been less than two hours.

 

[LeLe]

Wa this is a very negative reaction that i didn't expected to get , initially I was planning to plot twist by mentioning only in the end I am actually the Button in this case study holding A♠, 6♣.

I was just trying to case study a bad play as it is quite obvious from the start, clam down everyone.

I should stop this thread as of now

 

[JustinInMN]

Wow, unless the deck bails you out you are going to lose 80 on a hand that was a pretty clear fold for 0.50 pre.

7 handed, offsuit aces just don't have a lot of value, especially in early position. This should have been a fold.

After limping facing the raise on your immediate left should have been a fold. Flop should have been a fold also.

On the turn, the bet size may be "weak" but he probably knows there isn't a lot he can't get paid by if he has an overpair, so I would just give him credit for sizing down, hoping someone with a 6x or 3x will station. I think all the action thus far suggests villain has an overpair and occasionally A8 or even 88 for that matter.

I will say hero's action on the turn is at least interesting. I do agree, given the action so far, hero is the player more likely to have an 8. So villain may lay a better hand down here. But the 3-bet signals that isn't happening. There is no universe in which villain is ever folding after 3-betting to 80. Villain is sticky, you can't bluff sticky. (This is great money saving advice that bad no-limit players never take.)

 

[shorticus]

I don’t think the intent is to berate or demean you in any way.

For me personally, this hand is hard to navigate as I think the general consensus is a fold. As the hand progresses, it’s gets harder and harder to give advice as I never want to be in this situation.

I apologize if I offended you.

 

[JustinInMN]

Wa this is a very negative reaction that i didn't expected to get ,

I was just trying to case study a bad play as it is quite obvious from the start, clam down everyone.

If you come to the strategy forum, you better expect advice that you didn't consider, even if negative.

initially I was planning to plot twist by mentioning only in the end I am actually the Button in this case study holding A♠, 6♣.

Glad to hear this. This is still probably fold pre given you are acting after UTG+1 raising. Offsuit aces just don't run well against mid position raisers. I would even fold as high as ATo personally unless I know UTG+1 is frequently out of line.

As played, I kind of get the call on the flop in position to see what villain does on the turn. You can beat a hunk of villain's preflop range now, and obviously UTG is engaging in spew.

I think it's a solid laydown on the turn though.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Damn, did OP really get upset less than one page into the comments and dirty delete everything? Not sure what you're so offended by, but I'll go ahead and add my two cents, partially out of spite for dirty deleting a conversation that other people put time and energy into participating in.

Obviously A3o at a nearly full table, out of position, is an easy fold upfront. Then it's also a fold to the preflop raise that comes back around. Then it's also a fold on the 368 flop. There's just no value in this hand in this spot. The vast majority of the time, you'll just lose a bunch of money for no reason. Not sure what went down on the turn and river, but unless an A or a 3 came, it remains an easy fold (and even with an A, it's still pretty marginal).

Oh, but you're the button with A6s? Okay, let's look at that.

Fold preflop. While you may get away with this play in some spots against some players, you're calling with a hand that's likely to be dominated right out of the gate. This kind of hand is awesome for setting you up with horrible spots that will drain your money.

Then fold on the flop too. You have almost the same situation as A3: a small, less-than-top pair that you can't really be confident about. You're facing a substantial bet with relatively little left to play. If you can somehow be very confident that you're up against an unimproved big ace, then there's a case for shoving the flop. Outside of that narrow, unlikely situation, you have a pair of sixes and you need to improve. You're not getting anywhere near good enough direct odds from the pot for this weak draw.

Even if you expect to get action whenever you improve, you're still falling short on stack odds relative to your draw, and this doesn't even account for the times when you'll improve and lose anyway, either because you're already beaten or you get outdrawn. And glossing over all of that, you're probably going to face a follow-up bet that you can't call on the turn anyway, which will likely offer you even worse odds than the flop bet.

TLDR: Fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, and then fold some more. Both A3o and A6s here are demonstrating some of the leakiest play you'll ever find at a Hold'em table.

 

[JustinInMN]

Damn, did OP really get upset less than one page into the comments and dirty delete everything? Not sure what you're so offended by, but I'll go ahead and add my two cents, partially out of spite for dirty deleting a conversation that other people put time and energy into participating in.

Agreed, this is incredibly out of line. Part of strategy discussion is criticism, and sometimes it's spirited. The abuse of the edit feature here is completely uncalled for. I won't be interacting with this poster any more.

 

[Legend5555]

You have to be careful about posting hands where you aren't the hero and not mentioning it up front. We all do it, but it's sort of an earned privilege to some extent. It either needs to be fairly obvious you aren't the hero, and that comes from us knowing your style from other hands you've posted, or it needs to be a hero that can credibly be you or isn't a total fish until you reveal otherwise.

You live and you learn, but don't take offense. Those of us that frequent the strategy section don't sugar coat and are pretty serious.

 

[Jimulacrum]

Agreed, this is incredibly out of line. Part of strategy discussion is criticism, and sometimes it's spirited. The abuse of the edit feature here is completely uncalled for. I won't be interacting with this poster any more.

I'd go a step further and say it's incredibly out of line anywhere, not just the strat forum.

I can't think of a single topic where it would be acceptable to do what was done here. Sometimes it's okay to delete a comment here and there (e.g., you commented in the wrong thread), but it's never okay to do it because you don't like some of the other comments and want to withdraw your participation after the fact. Especially when you're the OP.

For real, OP, please don't do this. It sucks for all the other commenters who took the time and energy to try to help you improve your game.

 

[Venturalvn]

Let's roast OP for the play the button made, because it's almost as bad as the UTG.

 

[upNdown]

This kind of hand is awesome for setting you up with horrible spots that will drain your money.

For me personally, this hand is hard to navigate as I think the general consensus is a fold. As the hand progresses, it’s gets harder and harder to give advice as I never want to be in this situation.

I remember when I “got good enough” to play at casinos, I’d routinely find myself in these spots where all I could do is wonder “how the hell did I get myself into this situation.”
Then I stopped limping into pots with shit cards.

 

[Josh Kifer]

I remember when I “got good enough” to play at casinos, I’d routinely find myself in these spots where all I could do is wonder “how the hell did I get myself into this situation.”
Then I stopped limping into pots with shit cards.

I have this battle with a player at my table. He plays 85% of hands because "it could hit"

You do realize the amounts you lose when it kinda hits and keep paying out defeats the few times it does hit and you get paid out. Fold yo shit son! Fold!

 

[Jimulacrum]

I have this battle with a player at my table. He plays 85% of hands because "it could hit"

You do realize the amounts you lose when it kinda hits and keep paying out defeats the few times it does hit and you get paid out. Fold yo shit son! Fold!

Sounds like a fish tank that would do better without your unwelcome tapping.

 

[warma]

For real, OP, please don't do this. It sucks for all the other commenters who took the time and energy to try to help you improve your game.

And for the other readers who could also learn from this event.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Sounds like a fish tank that would do better without your unwelcome tapping.

After 8 years, I'd rather him get better then donk out every week. I have a large heart.....

 

[Saoliver]

After 8 years, I'd rather him get better then donk out every week. I have a large heart.....

This you?

 

[Legend5555]

My final question regarding all this is:

Can I get an invite to this online home game?

 

[shorticus]

My final question regarding all this is:

Can I get an invite to this online home game?

Game starts at 11. You will be in bed.

I’ll allow you to stake me at this point.

 

[Legend5555]

Game starts at 11. You will be in bed.

I’ll allow you to stake me at this point.

I'm not ALWAYS asleep by 11. Just 95% of the time.

 

[Colquhoun]

The best advice I read early on was from Sklansky, “You’re not trying to win the most pots...only the big ones.”

Not bad advice for me now, either.