Tourney Tourney, top 3-4, but never a win, any tips? (1 Viewer)

[mummel]

In the couple of home tourneys Ive played, I've sometimes managed to get up into the top 3, but I've never been able to pull a win.

I find end game tough. It feels like a slow bleed. If I keep folding, I lose heavy blinds. If I play loose, I dont get the cards I need and then get forced to call / go all-in on average hands. I normally dont have the largest stack so bluffing has been tricky (opponents just call).

Any ideas to help improve my end game?

 

[jbutler]

In the couple of home tourneys Ive played, I've sometimes managed to get up into the top 3, but I've never been able to pull a win.

I find end game tough. It feels like a slow bleed. If I keep folding, I lose heavy blinds. If I play loose, I dont get the cards I need and then get forced to call / go all-in on average hands. I normally dont have the largest stack so bluffing has been tricky (opponents just call).

Any ideas to help improve my end game?

It's likely just a case of being less familiar with shorthanded hand values than you are with 6-max or full ring hand values. Find one or two friends who can play regularly with you and play as many 3-player turbos as possible.

Even playing 3- or 4-handed cash games would be good for your game, though I wouldn't play too deep so as to more accurately replicate what are likely your endgame tourney scenarios.

 

[Mr Tree]

Getting down to the last few spots is usually tougher than winning a tournament to be honest.

When you get down to three and especially heads up your range has to open MUCH wider and your aggression needs to ratchet way up. Heads up usually resolves pretty quick. If you play passive your opponent is going to feast on your blinds and break you down.

 

[courage]

Read this, it'll give you differing ways to think about tourney strategy:
http://www.amazon.com/Winning-Poker...d=1461017356&sr=1-9&keywords=tournament+poker

Pick on the middle sized stacks leading up to the bubble and also 4-handed, esp. those players who talk about chopping or seem obsessed with making the money. Don't be one of those players.

 

[Mental Nomad]

If I keep folding, I lose heavy blinds. If I play loose, I dont get the cards I need...

Don't play loose. Play aggressive.

And it's hard to play aggressive until you re-learn the value of hands when short handed...

Against two random opponents, Q8o has 33% pot equity.
T8o has 33% pot equity.

My point isn't that these hands should necessarily be played any particular way in any particular situation, but just to be aware how much the "threshold" has come down.

Also, when you loosen up... remember that others have loosened up, too. That means their hand is weaker! You don't always have to hit the flop to be ahead.

If you keep playing as if facing the same opponent on a flop as you did before, you're over-valuing them. Remember, earlier, you were facing the best of nine other players. Now, not so much - and the one person who came in with you, did it knowing that you've loosened up, too.

 

[doakwolf]

Don't play loose. Play aggressive.

This.

Be confident & take charge of the table. As Nomad said, "their hand is weaker [too]". At this stage (3 left) of the game (assuming Hold'em), the flop is often irrelevant. No one's hit a thing most hands. So if you're first to act, act.

 

[BGinGA]

I normally dont have the largest stack.....

Any ideas to help improve my end game?

Show up three-handed with more chips. Sounds simple, and it sorta is -- because it means changing gears BEFORE you get three-handed. Courage and Mental have the right ideas on how to do that.

If you are just hanging on and limping into the top three, you'll likely never win. Gotta have chips to use 'em short-handed, so go get 'em before the final dance starts.

No better to finish 3rd than 5th imo (in most cases; league points could make a difference), so make aggressive moves to increase your stack when still 5- or 6-handed -- even if it means an unsuccessful attempt ends your night. The bigger pay-offs you make available to you (by having more chips 3-handed) are worth it.

 

[Chris Manzoni]

Most recreational players, myself included sometimes, play tournaments in the style opposite of which they're supposed to - that is, loose/speculative in the early levels (when everyone's deep) and then they tighten up as the money approaches. While this approach can work if your goal is just to cash, it is a disaster if you're playing for first as you should be.

A big help for me in overcoming this tendency was to realize that the most successful tournament players actually cash less frequently than most of their peers. A 30-40% cashing rate can easily be a money losing number if most of those cashes are min. Conversely a 5% cashing rate can be hugely profitable if most of those cashes are taking down the tournament - this is especially true in card rooms where the payout is typically close to 10% of the field as opposed to the usual 20% or so for home games.

Bottom line for me - I learned to stop being ashamed of busting out of tournaments (because in home games there is a lot of subconscious shaming that goes on among friends) and started looking for spots to 3 bet or open shove over limpers at 20-25 bigs instead of 10-15. Now I've got the reputation of go big or go home, which is fine with me as all my buds say to each other "Don't give that guy chips!"

Playing for first place (or top 3 in large buy in events) is the only way to turn a profit in tournament poker, take your lumps over and over if you have to, but don't wait until you have 10 bigs to get it in!