Trying to Discover Leaks (1 Viewer)

[MoscowRadio]

For the last two weeks I've been really grinding the $20 tournaments on Bovada, specifically the $5k GTD tourneys. They generally draw anywhere from 500-700 players with the highest I've seen being just over 1,100. I've been faring well in them for the most part. I've cashed in almost every one I've played, but I can't seem to make it past the 30th place benchmark. The tournament levels start at 10/20 and go up every 12 minutes. Each player starts with 5,000 in chips (250 BBs), so the game moves very slowly at the beginning. There is little to no fold equity pre-flop and stack sizes generally stay small until around the 8th or 9th level, then players begin busting at an enormous rate.

I know better than to bluff the calling-stations, which there are quite a few of, but I also feel like I've been playing a pretty solid LAGish style, but still I can't seem to make a final table. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice for playing in such a tourney and maybe where I could make adjustments? I feel like cashing in these events frequently is nothing to sneeze at, but I'd really like to start crushing these games.

 

[stocky]

Towards the end of these large MTT I find you really need to tighten your range considerably. Build your stack in the early stages (I use to go full LAG early on) then change gears to a TAG approach. Rarely anyone's 3 barrel bluffing at the end stages so pick your spots wisely and always think of position.

 

[CHP TD]

Hi Mosco

I dont think i have much to help here but i love discussing theory... Firstly if you made it to top 40 out of 500 -700 players then Firstly damn that is really good! you are definatly in the "Push Fest" part of the tourney. this is where luck plays a huge part. so skill gets you to where luck can help.

Have you read harrington on holdem book 2? and do you understand the M concept? this transformed my tourney play.

If you have read and apply the m concept, im out of ideas. Sad face...

 

[MoscowRadio]

I've definitely been tightening up my range when effective stacks get to be around 15-20 BBs and making decisions based on the players' stacks who have yet to act. I've been finding myself on the losing side of a lot of flips, but that's not something I would change.

 

[MoscowRadio]

Hi Mosco

I dont think i have much to help here but i love discussing theory... Firstly if you made it to top 40 out of 500 -700 players then Firstly damn that is really good! you are definatly in the "Push Fest" part of the tourney. this is where luck plays a huge part. so skill gets you to where luck can help.

Have you read harrington on holdem book 2? and do you understand the M concept? this transformed my tourney play.

If you have read and apply the m concept, im out of ideas. Sad face...

I haven't read Harrington's books on tournaments, but I definitely always keep track of my 'M' ratio.

 

[MoscowRadio]

In 15 minutes I'm playing in a $50+$5 buy-in $15k GTD tourney. I've been studying, grinding, and reading my ass off, so it's time to jump in!

 

[manamongkids]

You might have leaks but how big is your sample size? Cashing regularly is a great sign of a successful tournament pro. Most pros cash probably 15-18% of the time for a really successful player.

Equities run close and when you have a short stack <15 bbs you have to get lucky to win it all

 

[MoscowRadio]

My sample size is small. Roughly 15 tournaments and I've cashed and gotten in the top 40 (fairly large fields as mentioned in OP) or better in 6 of them. Let's hope tonight's tournament fares well. Starting stacks are 500 BBs, so that will lead to more maneuvering but a lot less fold equity.

 

[manamongkids]

My sample size is small. Roughly 15 tournaments and I've cashed and gotten in the top 40 or better in 6 of them. Let's hope tonight's tournament fares well. Starting stacks are 500 BBs, so that will lead to more maneuvering but a lot less fold equity.

Try doing some digging on two plus two, lots of good content on their about these type of tournaments and real hand discussions.

 

[MoscowRadio]

Try doing some digging on two plus two, lots of good content on their about these type of tournaments and real hand discussions.

Will do.

 

[Ronoh]

Bovada drives me crazy with their seemly never ending late registration horseshit that runs for like three hours... miss online poker terribly but I hate that so much that I almost never play.

Best advice I can give is don't ever have the goal of "climbing the ladder". If cashing means a lot to you that's fine, but once there if you are regularly aware the payout increases when x numbers of more players bust out, odds are you're concerned with climbing the ladder. Don't ever alter your play over concern of making the next rung for another 5, 10, 20, 40 bucks...

Eye on the prize, Violet, eye on the prize.

Make your moves before your stack is small enough to where you're getting callers "just because". If you are regularly making the top 5% the final tables will come. Luck is a major part of it all, no one wins a high turnout tournament without at some point being behind with all their chips in the middle and catching.

I believe one of the reasons I was a successful online tournament player is because when I started heavy on Stars their high turnout tournaments paid 10% of the field, you had to get very deep before the thought of hitting the $$$ even became a remote glimmer. Cashing in and of itself was an accomplishment and you actually made something when you did. What a sad day when they introduced their 20% payout structure. Wise move on their part I'm sure, makes double the amount of people feel like winners even when the bottom dweller payouts were less than the buyin amount. Wider distribution of smaller payouts also assures more $$$ will eventually come back to them as well I'm sure.

 

[Anthony Martino]

I remember playing the nightly 40K guaranteed on Party back in the day, a $20+$2 buyin with around 2,000 runners. I came in 50th, 35th, 28th and 12th, I could never get over that hump and final table the damned thing, so I feel your pain. The most I won was $300-400 while first was 10-12K

I can't remember what year it was, I think it was the year Jerry Yang won the WSOP. Whatever the case, there was something like 6,000 entrants and I remember the payout for 10th was so much lower than for 1st place out of that ridiculous field that if you cashed for something like 10 or more years in a row in 10th place out of 6K entrants you still wouldn't win as much as coming in 1st just once.

Bottom line is you have to take risks later and you have to take advantage of people tightening up who are trying to squeeze into the money and collect those blinds and antes and pad your stack as best you can. At the end of the day, I believe most long-term poker professionals will gravitate towards cash games for their more consistent stream of income.

 

[CHP TD]

to add what anthony said the 2nd harrington book gives concrete examples of what hands to use at what inflection points. Moreover it explains why.

 

[MoscowRadio]

I appreciate everyone's input up to this point. I never leave myself without some fold equity. I see that a lot. People will have an 'M' of 2 and fold, fold, fold. Then they get upset at people calling them with hands like K7s. I generally try to take your advice @Anthony Martino and try to attack blinds and antes as they rise, but it's difficult when 7 out of 9 players at your table are sitting on 10 BBs or less.

In other news, I just doubled up and am sitting on 21k with blinds about to move to 100/200. (y) :thumbsup:

 

[Anthony Martino]

Experiment with some new things. Try to play a tourney blind without ever looking at your cards.

Late in a tourney start minraising or shoving EVERY hand.

You'll see how others respond to pressure, how others react to bet sizes, etc

 

[manamongkids]

I remember playing the nightly 40K guaranteed on Party back in the day, a $20+$2 buyin with around 2,000 runners. I came in 50th, 35th, 28th and 12th, I could never get over that hump and final table the damned thing, so I feel your pain. The most I won was $300-400 while first was 10-12K

I can't remember what year it was, I think it was the year Jerry Yang won the WSOP. Whatever the case, there was something like 6,000 entrants and I remember the payout for 10th was so much lower than for 1st place out of that ridiculous field that if you cashed for something like 10 or more years in a row in 10th place out of 6K entrants you still wouldn't win as much as coming in 1st just once.

Bottom line is you have to take risks later and you have to take advantage of people tightening up who are trying to squeeze into the money and collect those blinds and antes and pad your stack as best you can. At the end of the day, I believe most long-term poker professionals will gravitate towards cash games for their more consistent stream of income.

also people who play for a living that play only tournaments are always swapping % with other top players, or being backed by someone else. tournament poker is hard work to make money at

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

Practice the art of winning flips at BBotB until you become an expert.

 

[MoscowRadio]

To say that a player doesn't have leaks is to basically say that they're a perfect player, right? So, in that context, everyone's got something they could be working on to get better. Do you think this is true?

 

[Anthony Martino]

To say that a player doesn't have leaks is to basically say that they're a perfect player, right? So, in that context, everyone's got something they could be working on to get better. Do you think this is true?

Of course, I saw Phil Ivey mistakenly fold a flush on national television. Even the best make mistakes.

 

[MoscowRadio]

I folded the bottom end of a full house when the board ran out 33ATT. I had 3c5c and Villain showed AK. It was for my whole stack. (n) :thumbsdown:

To clarify, Villain had been super active and I thought I could put play him post-flop, so I 3-bet with a suited one-gapper in position and he flatted.

I understand that this is probably a losing play in the long-run. Was Zeebo right all along??

 

[MoscowRadio]

Played three MTTs today and cashed in two of them. My best finish was 12th out of 561 in a $15k GTD. My 66 ran into AA. Just short of the final table...again.