Trying to find more spots to bluff (1 Viewer)

[ngmcs8203]

I am trying to find more spots to bluff, especially at the 100NL and eventual 200NL tables. This one was about 15 hands into my session and the villain didn't seem to be getting too out of line. The table, for the most part, was respecting PFR and playing what seemed like straight forward poker. I was debating a shove on the turn since I wasn't sure if a river shove when the FD missed would be better. GTOW did not like my PFR call, but PC's PF charts do. Anyway, here's the hand as it played out. Would love some feedback as played on whether the turn shove or river shove was a better line.

Bovada / Ignition, Hold'em No Limit - $0.50/$1.00 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

Seat 2 (UTG): $101.50 (102 bb)
Seat 3 (MP): $138.48 (138 bb)
Seat 4 (CO): $100.00 (100 bb)
Hero (BU): $100.00 (100 bb)
Seat 6 (SB): $409.21 (409 bb)
Seat 1 (BB): $100.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($1.50) Hero (Hero) is BTN with T♦ 8♦
3 players fold, Hero (BU) raises to $2.50, Seat 6 (SB) 3-bets to $10, 1 fold, Hero (BU) calls $7.50

Flop: ($21) 9♣ 5♦ 6♦ (2 players)
Seat 6 (SB) bets $13, Hero (BU) calls $13

Turn: ($47) 2♠ (2 players)
Seat 6 (SB) bets $35, Hero (BU) calls $35

River: ($117) 2♥ (2 players)
Seat 6 (SB) checks, Hero (BU) bets $42 (all-in), Seat 6 (SB) folds

Total pot: $117 (Rake: $4)
Hero (BU) wins $113

 

[RagingAZN]

I think if you’re going to go with this hand, a turn shove is better. Jamming the river gives the villain a really good price to call with your stack size.

Also you say the table was playing quite straight forward so when SB 3! you, what range are you putting him on?

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

I think if you’re going to go with this hand, a turn shove is better. Jamming the river gives the villain a really good price to call with your stack size.

Also you say the table was playing quite straight forward so when SB 3! you, what range are you putting him on?

SB 3bet range versus button open should be pretty wide, I'm not OP just speculating. Especially at a 6max, if he's a good player I'd expect this to be any broadway combo, suited Ace, connectors down to 76. Depends on hero's image, if hes opening button wide the 3bets might have adjusted, or vice versa.

 

[ngmcs8203]

Also you say the table was playing quite straight forward so when SB 3! you, what range are you putting him on?

My 3! range against the button out of the small blind is A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T8s+, ATo+, KQo, 66, 88+

So either a pip tighter or looser is what I usually assume if they are a strong player until proven otherwise.

 

[ngmcs8203]

So my 3! call range against that range, he has about 47% equity. If he's not limiting himself to diamonds only with his bluffs, he has about 35% equity. Villain needs to call $77 to win $159 on a turn shove. He only needs about 33% equity in a 2:1 situation.

I'm also never good with taking into account blockers. On the river, I don't think he checks here with top of range unless he is super tricky. Until he shows me he is tricky, I am going to assume his check means weaker hands. So maybe on the river he's checking his bluff catchers, value hands and junk, afraid of three barrel bluffing and getting called. Check-calling with his value hands. At least that's what I was thinking before I shoved.

On the river, range v range, he has about 21% equity if he is only triple barreling with his strongest 2 pairs (over pairs), sets, and MAYBE his AdKx/AdQx hands (if I am sitting on 400BB I could see myself doing something like that to bully off a weak looking player.) This is only if I am check-calling the turn with the same range I check-called the flop. I have to imagine my range would look even stronger after the turn to him, so he's probably feeling like he has less equity on the river.

He is getting 3.8:1 on the river call, needing 21% equity to make the call. If my range between the flop and river never changes, he has it... but barely.

 

[ngmcs8203]

I always feel like if it’s close and they have outs left they are more likely to call than they would if they are on the river. Maybe that’s flawed logic.

 

[allforcharity]

Board pairing allows you to tell a good story, but turn and river with sudden aggressive action can be exploited by anybody.

 

[ngmcs8203]

turn and river with sudden aggressive action can be exploited by anybody.

Can you please explain this a little more?

 

[allforcharity]

Can you please explain this a little more?

I'm just thinking that anybody still in the hand and determined to bluff will try to do so more often by a paired turn-river compared to a paired flop-turn. The most aggressive players would try to push off on any flopped pair, assuming only 2-4 people get to see it.

 

[ngmcs8203]

I'm just thinking that anybody still in the hand and determined to bluff will try to do so more often by a paired turn-river compared to a paired flop-turn. The most aggressive players would try to push off on any flopped pair, assuming only 2-4 people get to see it.

Ah I gotcha. Wasn’t sure who you were referring to. Yea if he three barreled me there the pot was his. His check felt more like a give up than a trap and the only way I was winning was by shoving.

 

[Frogzilla]

Turn is a strange spot to raise just because it’s the brickiest of bricks and the sizing is strange, I don’t really play any hands value or bluff as a raise here. Flop could be a good bluff raise though?

River plays itself

 

[ngmcs8203]

Turns out villain had JT of spades. He chickened out on the river and my gut was right.

 

[erdried]

GTOW did not like my PFR call, but PC's PF charts do.

i like to think of it this way; pretending my stack is my net worth, would i really put another 7.5% of my net worth, making my investment 10%, into something very marginal and extremely speculative? In real life, no I would not. Unless I think my opponent is soo sooo weak and fit or fold and I can out play them post-flop. But even then, a raise from the SB is strong for weak players.

 

[erdried]

And I love suited one gappers on the button.

 

[erdried]

But maybe they are better for times when you can sneak in as a caller in a multiway situation or as the PFR with just a call from the blinds where you get rep lots of stronger hands?

 

[ngmcs8203]

Almost a year later and I still like my line. Maybe even more now than I did at the time. T8s is a pure open for me now the BTN. Nodelocked in GTOW, this is a pure jam for me on the river since I have no showdown and nothing but a hope and a dream. 2/3 of my range that I end up here with shoves and he is only supposed to call down with 1/3 of his range. He calls with his worst AdX and non-diamond AXs no pair hands. Since he isn't supposed to 3! with many 6s or 5s and I have them all, his calling range is super narrow on the river.

 

[nano617]

I wonder if a flop raise would be better in more situations… I’m not super sure how SB vs BU ranges are but I would imagine you have more sets, two pair and straights in this situation, and in my experience online (albeit 10x smaller stakes) people tend to lazily C-bet a lot of boards they really shouldn’t. That being said, nice hand and nice result as well.

You’re probably more studied than myself so I’m curious as to who has more nuts in this board, or if it’s somewhat symmetrical with optimal 3b from SB

 

[ngmcs8203]

On these types of boards the button is has the range and nut advantage and should be betting often. The SB should be c-betting barely 13% of his range here. This is generally a range check for the SB, even as the 3!er. If checked to the BTN, the BTN is betting with 56% of their hands. When the SB bets, the BTN continues with 2/3 of their hands. As played on the flop, the turn is a barrel from the SB with 2/3 of their hands and a continue from the BTN with 60% of their hands. Only a turn jam from the BTN with AA, A9dd, K9dd, QJdd, JTdd, T9s and 98s.