Wheeler Assembly
Flush
What can you tell me about this mold? Any idea who made it?
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What is this mold? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Wheeler Assembly
- Start date
Looks like what Eisenstadt called MD-90, perhaps?
http://www.antiquegamblingchips.com/molddesign_other.htm
http://www.antiquegamblingchips.com/molddesign_other.htm
OP
OP
Wheeler Assembly
Flush
Thank you! That is it... Can you tell me anything about them? Are they out there in abundance? Collectible? TIA, VW
Jeff in Iowa
Pair
The ZigZag mold has a long and slightly complicated history, and is unusual in that chips on the mold were manufactured by at least three different companies (the USPC Co., Burt Co, and T. R. King). Mainly used in California, often in Nevada, and sometimes in other Western states. Perhaps most popular during the 1940s and 1950s. Below is a simplified history.
It was originally used by Noll & Co., a dice manufacturer and gaming supply distributor which began in Los Angeles, CA, in 1930. It moved to Pasadena in 1944, and finally moved again briefly to Reno, NV in 1959. They were using the mold a bit earlier than what Eisenstadt indicates on his website. They were using it by 1938, and likely a few years earlier than that. Originally manufactured by the United States Playing Card Company, until the mold cups were transferred to the Burt Co., around 1947.
This faded 1963 Burt order card for the Nugget Casino (Sparks, NV) is the last Burt record we have of Noll using the mold.
(courtesy of the ChipGuide)
Noll & Co. shuts down by the mid or late 1960s. T. R. King buys the mold cups and/or the master die from the Noll Co. (or possibly another company that briefly owned it after Noll closed). T. R. King starts using the mold cups in the late 1960s. I suspect they might have mainly used it to fulfill re-orders or add-on orders for previous Noll Co. customers. This January 1967 order card (below) is the earliest T. R. King ZigZag order I have found so far. Note that they call it the "Noll" mold. TRK stops using the mold in the early 1970s.
(courtesy of the ChipGuide)
In the-mid 1990s and early 2000s, TRK starts using the mold again for a very few special orders. On the order cards they now refer to it as the "Wreath" mold. It was used, for example, for this "Kings Crown" fantasy chip.
(courtesty of the ChipGuide)
T. R. King closes in 2006, and what happened to the master die and the TRK ZigZag mold cups after that is not entirely clear.
It was originally used by Noll & Co., a dice manufacturer and gaming supply distributor which began in Los Angeles, CA, in 1930. It moved to Pasadena in 1944, and finally moved again briefly to Reno, NV in 1959. They were using the mold a bit earlier than what Eisenstadt indicates on his website. They were using it by 1938, and likely a few years earlier than that. Originally manufactured by the United States Playing Card Company, until the mold cups were transferred to the Burt Co., around 1947.
This faded 1963 Burt order card for the Nugget Casino (Sparks, NV) is the last Burt record we have of Noll using the mold.
(courtesy of the ChipGuide)
Noll & Co. shuts down by the mid or late 1960s. T. R. King buys the mold cups and/or the master die from the Noll Co. (or possibly another company that briefly owned it after Noll closed). T. R. King starts using the mold cups in the late 1960s. I suspect they might have mainly used it to fulfill re-orders or add-on orders for previous Noll Co. customers. This January 1967 order card (below) is the earliest T. R. King ZigZag order I have found so far. Note that they call it the "Noll" mold. TRK stops using the mold in the early 1970s.
(courtesy of the ChipGuide)
In the-mid 1990s and early 2000s, TRK starts using the mold again for a very few special orders. On the order cards they now refer to it as the "Wreath" mold. It was used, for example, for this "Kings Crown" fantasy chip.
(courtesty of the ChipGuide)
T. R. King closes in 2006, and what happened to the master die and the TRK ZigZag mold cups after that is not entirely clear.
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OP
OP
Wheeler Assembly
Flush
This is fantastic information. Thank you!
Mike mac
4 of a Kind
the mold commonly called criss cross applesauce and it originated in delhi india in the late 40s in a game know to locals as bone ji-ji . these chips are extremely valuable and highly covetable. nice find!
CrazyEddie
Full House
What other molds did TRK use? Until five minutes ago the only molds I knew they used were small crowns and large crowns!
OP
OP
Wheeler Assembly
Flush
I've got a barrel of these chips. Any idea of value?
VivasTable
Two Pair
That's a pretty fancy mold. I havent seen one like it on this forum yet. Nice find
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OP
Wheeler Assembly
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Jeff in Iowa
Pair
The three molds is pretty much it, and only a very tiny fraction of the chips they made were on the ZigZag mold.
They hot stamped plain mold chips, listed as Paranoid or ACME on the order cards. I'm guessing that they got these from the USPC Co. and elsewhere.
PS-looked all over chipguide for those order cards and could not find them. Can you or @ChipGuide provide a link to their location? Thanks
Chip Order Cards, when available, are listed with the other casino collectibles for a casino. Image courtesy of the ChipGuide.
Attachments
Thanks, but what about the chip order cards for home use chips? I’ve seen them posted in other threads.
Generally, the chip order records that appear on the ChipGuide were acquired by collectors after the manufacturers went out of business. I doubt that any chip manufacturer would share there records while still in business.
I am talking about personal order cards such as the one shown for TR King in post 4 above. That was not and order for/to a casino. It is my understanding that the Davids bought/acquired the TR King order cards and donated them to you all for preservation and that they are accessible on your site somewhere. Can you advise where those are located at?
Preserving Gaming History - http://www.preservinggaminghistory.com/
I’ve clicked on every link on that page, just as I did last night, and have yet to find a TR King card, such as the one I referenced above. Are you unable to tell me specifically where those cards are located on your site, if anywhere?
ekricket
Royal Flush
They are on the internet.
That’s basically the “help” you get.
Your welcome.
I know, right? I’m hoping @Jeff in Iowa jumps in since it was his post/pic or maybe I’ll just ask David, I’m sure he knows where they’re actually saved at.
Thanks.
Jeff in Iowa
Pair
I don't think T.R. King made those chips. They were probably made by either the USPC Co. or the Burt Co. If I had the chips in hand, I might be able to tell you which, as there are slight differences in some of the colors of their chips. For example, in the late 1940s and early 1950s the standard Burt blue was slightly darker than the USPC blue, and the Burt red was slightly lighter than the USPC red.
Your ZigZag "W" hot stamp chips have been attributed to "White's Card Room" in San Diego. See this ChipGuide listing and the order cards at the bottom; http://cgcm.themogh.org/cg_chip2.php?id=CASDCO&v=1833723024
I'm the California ChipGuide administrator, and I wrote up that listing. That attribution, however, is probably incorrect. I think the attribution confusion is because there are TRK small crown chips with the same W hot stamp. When T. R. King bought the Noll zig zag mold in the late 1960s, they also acquired their hot stamps, including the special order hot stamps. They used the Noll custom hot stamps on some new chip orders for their own customers.
There are no TRK "W" Zig Zag order cards, but there are orders cards for the "W" small crown chips.
(Courtesy of the ChipGuide).
Its a little confusing, but I hope that helps.
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Thanks so much Jeff! That is some incredible information. I pretty much assumed they were not TRK's and came from an earlier manufacturer but wanted to run that assumption down to confirm. The stamp definitely looks the same. They are all non-denominated w/ just the "W" on both sides so I figured they were probably for a personal set as opposed to a card room or other establishment. I greatly appreciate the input.
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ekricket
Royal Flush
Jeff in Iowa
Pair
Yes, likely a personal set, but illegals are often non-denominated. Also, the customer's investment in a special monogram is curious. We will likely never know where these chips were used, but it is useful to document where groups or hoards of these types of chips are found. Sometimes with that information we can triangulate where these chips might be from.
Did you find your chips in Texas? Can I ask you how many chips you found?
Jeff, I'm at work and don't recall exactly how many of each I bought, but will get you a full accounting of them when I get home later this evening.
I find that sad, I remember the closing and thought Dennis sold most TRK 'equipment' to BCC (but retired the Crowns 'forever').
I never knew he had other molds. Maybe in other hands after BCC sold whatever they had to Paulsons?
If that was the case it will never see the light of day ever again.
Also, forgot about this and don’t know if there is any connection whatsoever between the two, but one random C mold chip was mixed in with the zig zags
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