Cash Game What makes a game bad? (2 Viewers)

Taghkanic

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I was talking with a poker buddy about a game we both play in occasionally, which we both had independently decided not to play in anymore because it was “bad.”

This got me thinking about what makes a game “bad,” not necessarily related to your results.

(Could be either a cash game or a tourney, but I had to pick just one for the thread category.)

I’ll start my list in the next post, interested to hear others’ thoughts.
 
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* Bad mix of players (e.g. all aggro, all nitty, passive)

* Not enough money / excessive amount of money in play

* Disorganized or unreliable host; bad rulings

* Chip problems (crappy slugged chips, dirty chips, etc.)

* Dinged cards not replaced promptly

* Incompetent self-dealt game, lots of errors

* Too slow / tanking

 
* Too hot / too cold

* Bad / no food

* Lighting issues (too bright, too dim)

* Uncomfortable seating

* Beat-up table; resin table; untopped kitchen/dining table
 
* Distracted / inattentive players

* Stakes too low / too high for player pool

* Tourney: Bad blind structures and/or level timing

* Tourney: Payouts too flat or too topheavy

* Heavy rake
 
* Too many players for table size

* Bad sightlines at table (can’t see others properly)

* Disregard for / ignorance of standard rules and etiquette
 
Grumpy or angry players is near the top for me. Even if it’s just one guy - if you know he’s gonna go silent the first time he loses a pot and have a legitimate outburst the first time he gets coolered, that can really bring down the enjoyment for everybody.
- players leaving early. I don’t mind playing shorthanded, if that mean like 6 players. But if a table starts with 8 or 9 and you lose a few on them after the first few hours, that’s not great.
 
Distracted / inattentive players in a tournament for me. Played a 2hr super turbo a week or so back where blind levels were like 10 mins each. One player would take 30sec-1minute per action per hand. we barely got through an orbit each level. Wasn't incompetent, just not paying attention to the game.

Bad tournament structure also has started to disinterest me in playing some games. Bar tournaments near me ramp down the blind level times as the blind goes up. Gets to a point where things are more lucky than skill.
 
Disorganized or unreliable host; bad rulings

Disregard for / ignorance of standard rules and etiquette

This is the worst offence imo, I was playing a few weeks ago at a guys place, the table was bad, food was horrible, bathroom didn't have soap to wash your hands and dried piss on the floor.

Worst was he acted out of turn and called a bet, then the player announced his call in turn and the host then changed his action to raise, I explained he couldn't change his action and why ... Raking 7 bucks on a 4/8 game ... jfc

* Rake or unrealistic rake.
 
Grumpy or angry players is near the top for me. Even if it’s just one guy - if you know he’s gonna go silent the first time he loses a pot and have a legitimate outburst the first time he gets coolered, that can really bring down the enjoyment for everybody.
Yeah, this is easily my least favorite. One guy raising a stink can make everyone uncomfortable. Had a (former) friend whom I haven't spoken to since he yelled and slammed the table at a poker game. No tolerance for that kind of behavior outside extreme extenuating circumstances.
 
* Bad mix of players (e.g. all aggro, all nitty, passive)

* Not enough money / excessive amount of money in play

* Disorganized or unreliable host; bad rulings

* Chip problems (crappy slugged chips, dirty chips, etc.)

* Dinged cards not replaced promptly

* Incompetent self-dealt game, lots of errors

* Too slow / tanking
From this list #3 (bad host/rulings), #5 (bad cards), and #7 (slow play/tanking) are all obvious dealbreakers for me. I see any of these in a game, I have decided it's the last time I am going to sit in the game.

#1 (mix of players) is probably the next most important. I definitely don't want to sit in a game full of nits. I personally don't mind sitting in an aggro game so much. Overall though, I think it's somewhat lazy to assume a "game" is always the same because it's the same host and location. Always evaluate every lineup independently. Even just one or two different players can change the whole dynamic, or for that matter the same players just making adjustments can also have a profound effect.

#6 (incompetent self-dealing) is probably next on the list, but if I know I am going into a self-dealt game, I am already anticipating there will be more patience required than a center-dealt game. Also "lots of errors" is somewhat subjective. Again, I know sitting down I will need to tolerate a lot more in a self-dealt game and understand not everyone is at my skill level for dealing. (Which in all modesty, I rate pretty high for a home game, probably would be average to below average if I were to ever audition at a poker room.) Lower dealing skill is just part of the deal in this situation. So I try and be patient with slow and unsure dealers in a self-dealt game so long as they are trying to get it right. I do mind dealers that directly break protocol for their own motives. (Pre-burning being a particularly egregious example of this.)

#2 (money) is important. I'm more worried about not enough money in play because a game may tend to break early if the wrong players get stacked. And these players that would quit after one stacking tend to be on the nitter side in the first place. I am confused about what a concern about excessive money would be? (Security, perhaps?) My only concern about excessive money in play would be in an uncapped NL game. But even at that, if I just buy in 100BB at a time or whatever I am comfortable with, I am really controlling my own risk level regardless of what the other players are doing.

#4 (crappy chips) this is sacrilege on PCF, but this is something I will overlook if the game is otherwise good and I still feel confident about being paid out. That said I do think this is a sign of lazy hosting at mid to high stakes (say 1-2 and up) if you are not willing to invest in at least semi-customs for the price of 300 big blinds (one bad NLHE night) or fewer.

A guy in my neighborhood used to host a nice 50¢-1 NLHE game with stock scroll chips. (Presently $40/rack on Amazon. So better than dice chips, but still all of the security vulnerability.) I know I could have screwed him over royally if I ever just slipped a few greens in play, but I never did that and that game ran 1-2 nights a week for a good few years without issues before he moved away.
 
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All that matters is your players. I have played for exactly $0 in poker games, and my friends and I love it. We are competitive enough to not call everything because there's no money, instead keeping track of our scores to try to get to the top of our leaderboard. It's fun, people bring snacks, and no friendships get broken in the process. I'd assume if you have good people playing, that the people dictate how good the game is in the end.
 
All that matters is your players. I have played for exactly $0 in poker games, and my friends and I love it. We are competitive enough to not call everything because there's no money, instead keeping track of our scores to try to get to the top of our leaderboard. It's fun, people bring snacks, and no friendships get broken in the process. I'd assume if you have good people playing, that the people dictate how good the game is in the end.

i'll add to the list:

* Not playing for money





(i kid, of course - whatever you enjoy)
 
All that matters is your players. I have played for exactly $0 in poker games, and my friends and I love it. We are competitive enough to not call everything because there's no money, instead keeping track of our scores to try to get to the top of our leaderboard. It's fun, people bring snacks, and no friendships get broken in the process. I'd assume if you have good people playing, that the people dictate how good the game is in the end.
Players matter but even with a great mix of players you’re going to need cash. It might be all fun and games for a session but very few of these players, aside from those new to the game, will repeatedly invest a night into no stakes poker.

After that it’s everything else that matters; how the game is run (rulings etc), the equipment (cards, chips, tables), how well it’s dealt, the venue at large (music, comfort, decor, cleanliness, food and refreshments (are there any and to what extent), and finally the host themselves (friendly, approachable, do they like hosting and are they proud of their game and does it show).

Yes, a good mix of willing players is important but if any or all of the above components are missing you won’t have good players. You might be playing solitaire.

These things I know well.
 
-sloppy drunks.
-distracted players (usually the same as above). Let’s talk about your favorite Black Sabbath album later, action is on you, again.
-angry/sore losers.
-people who can’t shuffle and speak at the same time.
-people who go ballistic if someone makes an honest mistake in a self dealt game. This isn’t TV, it’s only $20, and the poor guy is 85 years old. Relax.
 
I used to say misregs, miserably bitching about their card distro, or about you raising too much, or you winning a 40/60 after you just lost a 25/75 to them. Not just comment or complaint, but shut up already annoying. But now I just use it an excuse to focus and find some tells

Now I think it’s dealers making lots of errors like wrong bet counts or not breaking down an opponents stack where I’m not sure I'm getting the correct amount. Or getting sloppy pitch that I’m pretty sure is flashing my card, so on. I usually don’t say anything but it’s tilting
 
Casino: Full of nits or misregs, I won't bother playing. Not spending quality time with miserable people.

Home game: Not being able to pay out your players. One sniff of doubt and I'm not playing.
 
Drunks, or I should say impaired players, because players that are Stoney baloney are bad too.

Inattentive players, and slow players. You don't need to tank every damn decision.

Players that don't understand when that there is a lot of dead time in poker, plenty of time to get a beer, take a piss, tell a story, but do it at the right time.

I was at a self dealt game, and the dealer in mid shuffle, sat the cards down in order tell a story.

Lastly it's players that berate others, usually for making a bad decision. Bad beats happen, but don't yell at the player that is showing up and willing to lose to you with poor decisions. They'll probably give it back by the end, but yelling at them and they may never come back.
 
Grumpy or angry players is near the top for me. Even if it’s just one guy - if you know he’s gonna go silent the first time he loses a pot and have a legitimate outburst the first time he gets coolered, that can really bring down the enjoyment for everybody.
- players leaving early. I don’t mind playing shorthanded, if that mean like 6 players. But if a table starts with 8 or 9 and you lose a few on them after the first few hours, that’s not great.
I do share that opinion. Grumpy players can really make the game not enjoyable. One of our reg is the king of "I'm always dealt bad cards, blablabla". When he looses to a bad beat he gets grumpy. When someone else loses to a bad beat he becomes grumpy for him.

A side of that, I d say overall confort.
 
Hoodie, scarf, glasses and man purse wearing nitty tankers

so basically most Europeans
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Players matter but even with a great mix of players you’re going to need cash. It might be all fun and games for a session but very few of these players, aside from those new to the game, will repeatedly invest a night into no stakes poker.

After that it’s everything else that matters; how the game is run (rulings etc), the equipment (cards, chips, tables), how well it’s dealt, the venue at large (music, comfort, decor, cleanliness, food and refreshments (are there any and to what extent), and finally the host themselves (friendly, approachable, do they like hosting and are they proud of their game and does it show).

Yes, a good mix of willing players is important but if any or all of the above components are missing you won’t have good players. You might be playing solitaire.

These things I know well.
My $0 game has been running consistently since 2005... 19 years. Player pool of course evolved over time but still have a core of long-term regulars.

Edit: If is fun... Is a good game.
 
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I want a fun vibe at poker night. That is the most important thing for me. I have enough life and work stressors. I don't want any at the poker table. Lets laugh, drink, and gamble!

I love having great chips, chairs, cards, etc....but people are what make the game.
 
* Players who basically stop playing once they double up and just want to protect the win for an hour or two to make it look like they aren’t hitting and running.

I am so glad that I don't have players like that in my game. We don't have any hit n run type players. Very few that sit on a big stack.

I do agree, that would be very fustrating!
 

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