Why do metal slug real clay chips not exist? (2 Viewers)

[dylanthepiguy2]

CPCs or non-leaded Paulsons with 1-2g extra weight would be great. 10.5-11g is my favourite weight.
Why not add a thin metal slug as a compromise to make them not too heavy but slightly heavier?

CPCs are a little light IMO.
Jumer Paulsons are also in the same bucket due to the lack of lead.

I have some 13g Spartan poker chips from Versa, and the sound is not too bad, although it is thumpier than paulsons/CPCs although that could be reduced with a 11g weight instead of 13g.

Also have manufacturers experimented with different slug shapes? Rather than flat discs, have X shapes or something. Maybe that could change the sound quality a little.

 

[Okku]

I don't think it was ever a thought for chip manufacturers to stick a piece of metal slug into a clay or clay composite chip like a Paulson or TRK or anything of that sort. That's not how things were done back then. Once China got into the mix of making chips in a mass produced way, that's when the metal slug was introduced. When China is making chips primarily using plastic. nylon and other random materials it needs that metal slug in order for it to weigh more. When, comparing these chips to the actual casino weight or let's say a Paulson it's clear to see why it needs that.

They used to use different types of metal flakes, powders and things of that sort to add weight. When manufacturers were making chips like TRK chips would hit 12g+ in some cases. I remember I had a rack of red TRKs that averaged probably 12.6g per chip, when you shined it in sunlight it sparkled because of the amount of lead/metal flake that was in them. The same could go for some Paulsons depending on color, year they were made and all other things.

For CPCs case, it's always been about creating realistic chips for the home market or in some cases, the casinos. So, why mess with the formula and change it up if it's been working for over 40 years. It just doesn't make sense.

China is getting a lot better now and making ceramics that are about 10g per chip that are molded with a recess for inlays. So, we'll still see the metal slug chips for those that are cheap, but those that want a slightly better almost exactly casino quality chip it's coming fast.

 

[dylanthepiguy2]

> They used to use different types of metal flakes, powders and things of that sort to add weight.

Exactly, but without lead powder, what is there to replace it with for weight? CPC use brass/magnesium flakes but that only adds 0.5g and is also expensive.

> For CPCs case, it's always been about creating realistic chips for the home market or in some cases, the casinos. So, why mess with the formula and change it up if it's been working for over 40 years. It just doesn't make sense.

'if it's working' is subjective of course. I don't know if I could ever buy a full set of CPCs just because of the weight. Why not have the option of thin slugs to go from 8.5g or whatever up to 11g mark? I want a balance of nice texture, weight, and sound. Lead powder/flakes seems to be the only way to go.
Also has it been working? Has CPCs been used in many casinos? Some people like them, but obviously not enough people to create enough demand for the business

 

[KHarp1]

Hey, CPC is for sale, maybe you should put your money up and start making chips the way you want them.

 

[ekricket]

> They used to use different types of metal flakes, powders and things of that sort to add weight.

Exactly, but without lead powder, what is there to replace it with for weight? CPC use brass/magnesium flakes but that only adds 0.5g and is also expensive.

> For CPCs case, it's always been about creating realistic chips for the home market or in some cases, the casinos. So, why mess with the formula and change it up if it's been working for over 40 years. It just doesn't make sense.

'if it's working' is subjective of course. I don't know if I could ever buy a full set of CPCs just because of the weight. Why not have the option of thin slugs to go from 8.5g or whatever up to 11g mark? I want a balance of nice texture, weight, and sound. Lead powder/flakes seems to be the only way to go.
Also has it been working? Has CPCs been used in many casinos? Some people like them, but obviously not enough people to create enough demand for the business

https://www.ecomass.com/case-study/abbiati-weighted-casino-chips/

 

[AlbinoDragon]

Christy and Jones used a lead slug under the inlay in their chips for a while.

(a manufacturer sample that's in my collection).


My guess is 10g is a sweet-spot as most dealers (poker, blackjack, craps, etc.) use that weight. I can't imagine sliding stacks of 12g chips around a table shift after shift. Enough mass to enable stable stacks, feel like there's substance to the chip but not so much you don't want to handle them.

Remember "official casino weight" is something a marketing individual came up with. There is no such thing. Additionally, the "more is better" isn't always the case.

 

[dylanthepiguy2]

Hey, CPC is for sale, maybe you should put your money up and start making chips the way you want them

sounds like a dream!

 

[wickedwonka121]

ME here. The thought of the tooling makes this cost way too much. That's why flakes make sense. Just think about how this would be accomplished.

 

[dylanthepiguy2]

Making the tooling to make flat steel discs can't cost that much if you can buy dice chips dirty cheap.
There'll be an up front cost for sure but long-run surely wouldn't cost too much.
Flakes using magnesium and brass is a super expensive material especially with global shortages at the moment.
Flakes using steel is just asking for rust

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

Making the tooling to make flat steel discs can't cost that much if you can buy dice chips dirty cheap.
There'll be an up front cost for sure but long-run surely wouldn't cost too much.
Flakes using magnesium and brass is a super expensive material especially with global shortages at the moment.
Flakes using steel is just asking for rust

But think about injection mold pouring plastic for dice chips versus clay being molded and compressed. Very different process and art form. Dont think hes saying its expensive or prohibitive to make the washers, but adding them into the process would be another step.

 

[KHarp1]

In line with what wickedwonka is stating, the process for clay chips is different than injection molded plastics. That added step of pressing, then placing a disc in, then repressing is very labor intensive. Adding flakes in with the mix is much less hands on.

 

[ekricket]

But think about injection mold pouring plastic for dice chips versus clay being molded and compressed. Very different process and art form. Dont think hes saying its expensive or prohibitive to make the washers, but adding them into the process would be another step.

That’s why Binyuns are worth so much

 

[allforcharity]

Adding weight for the sake of adding weight doesn't do much. The old leaded chips certainly made them feel much different compared to other metals used. It's a hard process with the compression mold.
I've had a few of the metallic center (not coin in center) Paulson chips but never took it apart for science. They felt more like (an easily deformable) thin metal inlay rather than a slug. Must have been quite expensive to make at the time, otherwise I'd have thought it would be more popular.

 

[KHarp1]

Great minds thinking alike, @NotRealNameNoSir

 

[Tonysquander]

That’s why Binyuns are worth so much

Some of the real Binions, the older ones, did have a slug if I am recalling correctly.

Edit: found the pic. Instead of 7.8 it made them 11.2

 

[dylanthepiguy2]

ME here. The thought of the tooling makes this cost way too much. That's why flakes make sense. Just think about how this would be accomplished.

In line with what wickedwonka is stating, the process for clay chips is different than injection molded plastics. That added step of pressing, then placing a disc in, then repressing is very labor intensive. Adding flakes in with the mix is much less hands on.

But think about injection mold pouring plastic for dice chips versus clay being molded and compressed. Very different process and art form. Dont think hes saying its expensive or prohibitive to make the washers, but adding them into the process would be another step.

Oh I think i see the problem now. When assembling the soft clays together it'll be annoying to slice the clay in half to put the slug in then mush the halves back together.

What about just putting an extra thin metal slug behind each inlay then?
Maybe that affects the sound more than if the slug was deeper in idk
Not sure if there are any sizing changes due to temperature and therefore size change of the metal during molding

Adding weight for the sake of adding weight doesn't do much.

It makes it heavier! XD. I'm not asking for 15g chips, 10-11g is enough.

 

[Himewad]

Does a CIC count as a slugged clay chip?

 

[dylanthepiguy2]

i guess so! sound test please!

Does a CIC count as a slugged clay chip?

View attachment 1432894

 

[Himewad]

i guess so! sound test please!

I don’t think the coins ever touch each other. They are slightly recessed. And not particularly heavy IIRC, because it’s probably just a light metal being used (looks like aluminum).

 

[upNdown]

Adding weight for the sake of adding weight doesn't do much. The old leaded chips certainly made them feel much different compared to other metals used. It's a hard process with the compression mold.
I've had a few of the metallic center (not coin in center) Paulson chips but never took it apart for science. They felt more like (an easily deformable) thin metal inlay rather than a slug. Must have been quite expensive to make at the time, otherwise I'd have thought it would be more popular.

You’re getting at the truth for me. I love leaded Paulsons, but probably more for their feel than anything else. The weight is nice too, but it’s one of many factors.

I think the obsession with weight exists mostly because it’s quantifiable. You can’t post a number for how chips feel or for how they sound, but you can for how much they weigh.

 

[upNdown]

I don’t think the coins ever touch each other. They are slightly recessed. And not particularly heavy IIRC, because it’s probably just a light metal being used (looks like aluminum).

Those have a unique feel when shuffled and it is spectacular.

 

[ekricket]

Christy and Jones used a lead slug under the inlay in their chips for a while.

View attachment 1432874

(a manufacturer sample that's in my collection).


My guess is 10g is a sweet-spot as most dealers (poker, blackjack, craps, etc.) use that weight. I can't imagine sliding stacks of 12g chips around a table shift after shift. Enough mass to enable stable stacks, feel like there's substance to the chip but not so much you don't want to handle them.

Remember "official casino weight" is something a marketing individual came up with. There is no such thing. Additionally, the "more is better" isn't always the case.

Crazily enough, I just saw boxes of these.

 

[jamesjkim]

It seems they do exist. First time I’ve seen it (or held one in my hand for that matter). The slug is only visible on one side.

Anyone know more?

 

[drdr]

Hey, CPC is for sale, maybe you should put your money up and start making chips the way you want them.

Oh hell... don't slug my future CPCs. Shudder.

 

[upNdown]

It seems they do exist. First time I’ve seen it (or held one in my hand for that matter). The slug is only visible on one side.

Anyone know more?

View attachment 1435294

That's a puzzlement.
We know Christy & Jones weighted their hat and cane chips with those led slugs, before Paulson started making their leaded THCs. But that chip is a long cane version, so it must have been made by Paulson. And if that's an Eddie's $100, that place didn't open until 1987. I'm confused.

 

[Tonysquander]

It seems they do exist. First time I’ve seen it (or held one in my hand for that matter). The slug is only visible on one side.

Anyone know more?

View attachment 1435294

Are you sure that is a slug and not a thin piece of metal? I have seen them place very thin metal pieces under inlays for some reason. There is a thread somewhere about that.

 

[jamesjkim]

Are you sure that is a slug and not a thin piece of metal? I have seen them place very thin metal pieces under inlays for some reason. There is a thread somewhere about that.

It could be but I can't break the chip open since it's not mine unfortunately...

And if that's an Eddie's $100, that place didn't open until 1987.

Yup, it sure is but $500.

 

[Tonysquander]

It could be but I can't break the chip open since it's not mine unfortunately...


Yup, it sure is but $500.

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/has-anyone-ever-seen-this.116877/

I bet it is that thin foil.

 

[Okku]

I'll say this. The only H&C chip I've seen a metal slug in the middle of is a Sierra Tahoe $25 and I made a video about it a while back. Any other manufacturer, I haven't seen anything like this.

 

[allforcharity]

That's probably not a slug, just a thin metal foil. I uncovered lots of similar foil discs when murdering a rack of CDI98s.