Frogzilla
4 of a Kind
Watauga social raided by Tarrant county sheriff today. Big day 2 of tourney. Should have reshoved AT and mincashed.
Tx room raided (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Frogzilla
- Start date
OP
OP
Frogzilla
4 of a Kind
Yes. Detained everyone. Slowly issued citations, one at a time. Gambling PC 47.02 whatever that is
OP
OP
Frogzilla
4 of a Kind
Excellent looks like I have an easy defense
Probably so the Sheriff's department could seize the $150k prize pool.
Poker in Texas is not legal. The courts have not decided a case allowing a poker room to operate. The business model is still unproven law. It smells legal, but no one has passed the sniff test yet.
Poker in Texas is still largely "Play at your own risk".
Poker in Texas is still largely "Play at your own risk".
OP
OP
Frogzilla
4 of a Kind
I left after I got my citation, so far only players received them. Don’t know if employees will receive, I bounced.
They ran warrants on all 50 of us. They mentioned they were surprised to find….0 warrants.
Texas must be behind in filling the private for profit prisons quota. Nothing to see here.
TheDuke
Full House
Will this raid effectively close down this social club?
Are the police confiscating everything? (money on site, chips, tables, etc.)
Are the police confiscating everything? (money on site, chips, tables, etc.)
I follow some cop watcher/auditing YouTubers. Tarrant County seems to be another unaccountable and overreaching law enforcement organization. No doubt that civil asset forfeiture will allow them to buy a new tank or margarita machine.
OP
OP
Frogzilla
4 of a Kind
They behaved absolutely terribly. Completely unlike every other police interaction I’ve had in my life. Nothing serious just good god they need PR, put your guns up after its obvious the situation is secure and you’ve frisked everyone, you don’t need the isis masks, you don’t need to turn off the AC, you don’t need to turn the football games off (tvs were muted), you don’t need to be the No watching football on phone nazis, you don’t each need 4 magazines strapped to your bulletproof vests.
I got my citation, one sheriff said “hold on let me ask you some questions. What’s your name?. Said my name. “And how often do you play here?”
Me: “ Hey uh….aren’t u supposed to tell me something about being silent and it’ll be used against me?”
Sheriff “That’s only for interrogation, I’m asking question. Are you refusing to answer any questions?”
Me: “um well I told you my name, I just dunno how answering your questions is helpful to me”
Sheriff: “so are you refusing”
Me: “uh yes I think so not sure”
Sheriff “ok you can go”
I got my citation, one sheriff said “hold on let me ask you some questions. What’s your name?. Said my name. “And how often do you play here?”
Me: “ Hey uh….aren’t u supposed to tell me something about being silent and it’ll be used against me?”
Sheriff “That’s only for interrogation, I’m asking question. Are you refusing to answer any questions?”
Me: “um well I told you my name, I just dunno how answering your questions is helpful to me”
Sheriff: “so are you refusing”
Me: “uh yes I think so not sure”
Sheriff “ok you can go”
That’s true. The 5th amendment only applies if you’re being interrogated. If a cop is only asking questions, the things you say will not be used against you.
OP
OP
Frogzilla
4 of a Kind
It sounds made up but I swear that’s what she said. “I’m not interrogating you, I’m just asking you questions”. I would have explored this topic further as im sure it would have been amusing, but really I just wanted to leave
They only have to give Miranda rights if you are being detained/arrested. Anything you say can be used against you. So the key is the clarify if you’re being detained. If not, leave and consult an attorney before speaking with law inforcement.
DrStrange
4 of a Kind
Like many other Texas statutes, the gambling laws are ambiguous by intention, they are mostly untested in court. We will have to wait to see if the county DA pursue charges against the players and / or owners and / or operators.
@Frogzilla Was TABC involved? Liquor and gambling are a bad mix in Texas. Even worse if booze was involved without a license. Did anyone have their possessions taken - things like cash in hand or a watch or other valuables? Were you formally arrested? Detained is very different from arrested. Any professional license you had can be at risk if formally arrested in Texas.
Get a lawyer. You will spend some bucks when you might not have to. This is no time to save money. A little legal help up front can make all the difference. Don't use your brothers-in-law friend or someone from church. Get a real lawyer with proper experience.
Be mindful the standard approach in American justice is to charge you with everything imaginable and force you to plea bargain to lesser charges, forfeit assets, pay a fine and perhaps take probation on a bad day. Please don't wait till the threat is immanent before protecting yourself.
Good luck. Let's hope you don't need it -=- DrStrange
@Frogzilla Was TABC involved? Liquor and gambling are a bad mix in Texas. Even worse if booze was involved without a license. Did anyone have their possessions taken - things like cash in hand or a watch or other valuables? Were you formally arrested? Detained is very different from arrested. Any professional license you had can be at risk if formally arrested in Texas.
Get a lawyer. You will spend some bucks when you might not have to. This is no time to save money. A little legal help up front can make all the difference. Don't use your brothers-in-law friend or someone from church. Get a real lawyer with proper experience.
Be mindful the standard approach in American justice is to charge you with everything imaginable and force you to plea bargain to lesser charges, forfeit assets, pay a fine and perhaps take probation on a bad day. Please don't wait till the threat is immanent before protecting yourself.
Good luck. Let's hope you don't need it -=- DrStrange
I assumed the sarcasm would have come across pretty clear.
Arrested/detained or not, you never have to answer questions.
Yep. I didn’t realize you were joking. I was a juror on a murder trial where the conviction largely occurred because the individual talked too much. Big lesson.
OP
OP
Frogzilla
4 of a Kind
Great advice. I’ll see how my appearance at JOP goes, after that I’ll lawyer up if it doesn’t get thrown out immediately.
As for the room, It’s a membership required, BYOB room like all the other DFW rooms. Houston rooms typically have a bar, but Dallas is all BYOB. I don’t think anyone was drinking. Nobody had cash or possessions seized as far as I know. Nobody arrested as far as I know, only detained until citations were issued.
Texas rooms have always been in that stupid gray area.
OP
OP
Frogzilla
4 of a Kind
Another wrinkle that is spinning in my head…the tourney payouts.
Here’s some background on the structure and the room:
Room:
-Small TX membership only room with about 10 tables, running sporadic cash games and regular low stakes tourney.
Tourney:
-special event “fall classic” with higher buy in at $400 price point; 6 day 1 flights Mon-sat, day 2 on Sunday 1 pm. $100k guarantee. The normal tourneys are tiny in comparison both in buyin ($100ish) and players (20 vs 350+).
-15% of each flight qualify for day 2 (6 out of my flight of 41, 53 out of 360 or whatever it is in total
-all day 2 is in the money
-exact prize pool not available on day 1
-chips from day 1 flights are not bagged, instead the TD counts you down, records paper, and then a lot of setup by the room on day 2 to recreate stacks.
Ok so I get there 5 min before, seat assignments are ready, stacks are in the right seats (digression stacks are super light on low denoms, change to make blinds is a nightmare every hand). But what’s not ready…payouts. Tourney starts. No info on mincash, just confirmation we are in the money.
4 out of 53 bust out over the first 25 minutes. Still no payout info. TD is busy chugging away at laptop. A couple people at my table have been complaining that they don’t know the payjumps or where they are, nobody aggressively as it’s typical for the first payjumps to be insignificant. I was going to escalate at the level change, just a couple min away (30 min into the money, ok dude you had enough time) until the change in priorities.
It’s a little strange in retrospect that they never bothered with what the payouts were supposed to be.
Here’s some background on the structure and the room:
Room:
-Small TX membership only room with about 10 tables, running sporadic cash games and regular low stakes tourney.
Tourney:
-special event “fall classic” with higher buy in at $400 price point; 6 day 1 flights Mon-sat, day 2 on Sunday 1 pm. $100k guarantee. The normal tourneys are tiny in comparison both in buyin ($100ish) and players (20 vs 350+).
-15% of each flight qualify for day 2 (6 out of my flight of 41, 53 out of 360 or whatever it is in total
-all day 2 is in the money
-exact prize pool not available on day 1
-chips from day 1 flights are not bagged, instead the TD counts you down, records paper, and then a lot of setup by the room on day 2 to recreate stacks.
Ok so I get there 5 min before, seat assignments are ready, stacks are in the right seats (digression stacks are super light on low denoms, change to make blinds is a nightmare every hand). But what’s not ready…payouts. Tourney starts. No info on mincash, just confirmation we are in the money.
4 out of 53 bust out over the first 25 minutes. Still no payout info. TD is busy chugging away at laptop. A couple people at my table have been complaining that they don’t know the payjumps or where they are, nobody aggressively as it’s typical for the first payjumps to be insignificant. I was going to escalate at the level change, just a couple min away (30 min into the money, ok dude you had enough time) until the change in priorities.
It’s a little strange in retrospect that they never bothered with what the payouts were supposed to be.
I bet someone lost a lot of money, got mad about it, made up some story to the local cops and is watching the whole thing burn.
TheDuke
Full House
Seems a bit sus. Sounds like a half assed operation.
Perhaps some past disgruntled players filed a complaint.
OP
OP
Frogzilla
4 of a Kind
I dunno bout all that, that’s more typical of an underground game. There’s not any secrecy to this operation. Nobody asks “how did they find out”. Open signage, open advertising that this and other private social lounges offer poker with wagering.
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