Interesting Hand $25/$50/$100 NLHE (2 Viewers)

[Windwalker]

Played a super interesting hand at the Bike last week, and have been thinking about it a bunch.

Hero on the BTN, 2 hours into a $25/$50/$100 (blind, not straddle) game. 4 pros, 4 rec players. Average stack is around $40k. Hero has $34k, bought in for $20k.

Villain 1 is UTG, very loose, very aggressive rec player, can really have anything at any time. Known to make absurd hero calls. Was down $40k in the first 5 minutes, but has aggressively built his stack back up, up about $5k now. Stack at $45k.

V2 is a grinder pro, but very old school. Plays the way the old books say he should play. Wins when the cards are in his favor. Has been on a losing streak the last 5-6 sessions. Probably down $150k in the last 6 sessions. Sitting at just under $30k. He is in middle position.

Hero looks down at

V1 raises to $300.
V2 calls.

Everyone else folds. SB and BB are TAG pros. Both winning players.

Hero?

 

[ngmcs8203]

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

I'd comfortable folding but can see 3bets. Call me a nit; Ive got two solid pros behind me in a 50/50 rec/pro game and I have a weak suited one-gapper. Id find a better spot.

Just making sure, is V3 and V2 the same, just typo? What is V3's range here? Do the old books recommend call/calling, or laying a trap? Just trying to make sure I understand the read. Sounds very weak if hes comfortable calling just to fold to a competent player's squeeze. If I see someone call like this with this many good players behind I label tricky or fish.

Either fold if hes good or 3bet to $1000 to isolate the UTG nutcase and prevent squeeze from the blinds. Best case scenario they fold and I dont have to play QTs.

 

[Goldfish]

It’s really hard to comment before hero gets dealt his other two cards, but I definitely like the first two.

 

[Windwalker]

I'd comfortable folding but can see 3bets. Call me a nit; Ive got two solid pros behind me in a 50/50 rec/pro game and I have a weak suited one-gapper. Id find a better spot.

Just making sure, is V3 and V2 the same, just typo? What is V3's range here? Do the old books recommend call/calling, or laying a trap? Just trying to make sure I understand the read. Sounds very weak if hes comfortable calling just to fold to a competent player's squeeze. If I see someone call like this with this many good players behind I label tricky or fish.

Either fold if hes good or 3bet to $1000 to isolate the UTG nutcase and prevent squeeze from the blinds. Best case scenario they fold and I dont have to play QTs.

Typo, it’s fixed.

 

[ngmcs8203]

I'd comfortable folding but can see 3bets. Call me a nit; Ive got two solid pros behind me in a 50/50 rec/pro game and I have a weak suited one-gapper. Id find a better spot.

Just making sure, is V3 and V2 the same, just typo? What is V3's range here? Do the old books recommend call/calling, or laying a trap? Just trying to make sure I understand the read. Sounds very weak if hes comfortable calling just to fold to a competent player's squeeze. If I see someone call like this with this many good players behind I label tricky or fish.

Either fold if hes good or 3bet to $1000 to isolate the UTG nutcase and prevent squeeze from the blinds. Best case scenario they fold and I dont have to play QTs.

You’re a nit! Haha. Jk I don’t know you but yea this is either a flat if you think the blinds won’t raise or a 3! if you want to isolate. They’re playing poker and you can’t play if you fold your marginal hands preflop in late position.

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

You’re a nit! Haha. Jk I don’t know you but yea this is either a flat if you think the blinds won’t raise or a 3! if you want to isolate. They’re playing poker and you can’t play if you fold your marginal hands preflop in late position.

Totally fair! Playing scared money. I dont like flatting to the blinds but 3betting seems like the play.

Edit to add: what do we do when a 3bet comes from the blinds? Fold? Just think our range is really condensed and vulnerable just calling when in position to a crazy UTG open. Definitely trying to learn more, stakes are way out of my depth and maybe Im leaning too much on my exploitive side with fish/degens.

 

[DirtyTIVA]

The better play would probably be 3 bet to $1200 to try to get heads up. I’m sure V1 doesn’t fold but maybe V2 does. If 4 bet in return it would likely be a fold to V1 but if against V2 I would call since his range seems to be more narrow and therefore more exploitable.

If I was winning and trying to nurse it to the finish line instead of potentially blowing it all up with a combo draw I would flat the $300 and see what the flop brings first.

 

[Highli99]

I'd raise to isolate V1. V2 doesn't have a great hand (probably) or he would have a raised already. Unless V2 is trapping, he will fold or call with a hand probably worse than yours.

 

[ovo]

Hi Krish, nice to see you around

 

[WedgeRock]

I'd raise to isolate V1. V2 doesn't have a great hand (probably) or he would have a raised already. Unless V2 is trapping, he will fold or call with a hand probably worse than yours.

 

[ngmcs8203]

Totally fair! Playing scared money. I dont like flatting to the blinds but 3betting seems like the play.

Edit to add: what do we do when a 3bet comes from the blinds? Fold? Just think our range is really condensed and vulnerable just calling when in position to a crazy UTG open. Definitely trying to learn more, stakes are way out of my depth and maybe Im leaning too much on my exploitive side with fish/degens.

I think you can double flat if EP calls after one of the blinds raises.

 

[chippitydoodah]

I'd raise one mystery box

 

[Legend5555]

About 300-400bb deep, looks like a squeeze to 1500-2k from the button to me.

 

[Highli99]

I think it's fair to interpret lines one way most of the time and recognize it could be something else. I don't have any foot tells yet.

 

[bergs]

Call and see a flop.

 

[bergs]

Though it’d be funny if someday people made a thread like this and then finally replied “nope, I folded pre, okthxbye”

 

[WedgeRock]

I think it's fair to interpret lines one way most of the time and recognize it could be something else. I don't have any foot tells yet.

Agreed.

But if you acknowledge that

• V2 doesn't have a hand
• unless V2 is trapping

...then why would you conclude that if he calls, his hand is worse than hero's hand?

 

[allforcharity]

Hey Krish, nice to see you around.

I would just call. I see no big reason to 3-bet just to try and push off 1 person before the flop.

 

[ngmcs8203]

Hey Krish, nice to see you around.

I would just call. I see no big reason to 3-bet just to try and push off 1 person before the flop.

He still has the blinds behind to act. So he’d be squeezing out 3 to play heads up

 

[LeLe]

If one is going to play a hand like QTs or similar hands like QJs KTs in this position, it either a 3! Squeeze or fold.

Calling is the worse here, you just only to give the guys acting after you a better pot odd to call or raise/squeeze and even if you manage hit the flop, you will always have the kicker issue or flush issue in multi-way pot and your range is capped too.

With almost $800 in dead money now and sitting in deep, I will raise to $1700 - $1800

 

[NotRealNameNoSir]

If one is going to play a hand like QTs or similar hands like QJs KTs in this position, it either a 3! Squeeze or fold.

Calling is the worse here, you just only to give the guys acting after you a better pot odd to call or raise/squeeze and even if you manage hit the flop, you will always have the kicker issue or flush issue in multi-way pot and your range is capped too.

With almost $800 in dead money now and sitting in deep, I will raise to $1700 - $1800

Im of this mindset, but open to thinking about the calling math/strat, I play mostly exploitive and I want to get better with theory and balance. Just, with 4 pros/4 recs, we have half the pros still waiting to act and giving them a great price with a marginal hand. Position is great and widens our range for sure, but it feels awkward to trust them not to squeeze us.

 

[allforcharity]

He still has the blinds behind to act. So he’d be squeezing out 3 to play heads up

I thought he said everyone else folded and it's V1 and V2 with him last to act.

 

[ngmcs8203]

I thought he said everyone else folded and it's V1 and V2 with him last to act.

He’s on the button. He and the blinds have yet to act.

 

[Windwalker]

Continuing…

Played a super interesting hand at the Bike last week, and have been thinking about it a bunch.

Hero on the BTN, 2 hours into a $25/$50/$100 (blind, not straddle) game. 4 pros, 4 rec players. Average stack is around $40k. Hero has $34k, bought in for $20k.

Villain 1 is UTG, very loose, very aggressive rec player, can really have anything at any time. Known to make absurd hero calls. Was down $40k in the first 5 minutes, but has aggressively built his stack back up, up about $5k now. Stack at $45k.

V2 is a grinder pro, but very old school. Plays the way the old books say he should play. Wins when the cards are in his favor. Has been on a losing streak the last 5-6 sessions. Probably down $150k in the last 6 sessions. Sitting at just under $30k. He is in middle position.

Hero looks down at

V1 raises to $300.
V2 calls.

Everyone else folds. SB and BB are TAG pros. Both winning players.

—-
We’re not interested in giving the pros in the blinds any pot odds incentive to call here, so we decide to raise in position.

Hero raises to $1600.

SB, and both the big blinds fold.

V1 insta-calls.

V2 pauses for a bit, calls.

There is now $4975 in the pot.

Flop is

V1 checks, V2 checks.

Hero?

 

[Highli99]

Agreed.

But if you acknowledge that

• V2 doesn't have a hand
• unless V2 is trapping

...then why would you conclude that if he calls, his hand is worse than hero's hand?

I'd expect him to reraise prefloo with a trap. He doesn't want to take a flop with a premium without charging V1.

 

[chippitydoodah]

Hero bets 3 Mystery Boxes

 

[ngmcs8203]

Gotta bet for value. 1/3 pot at minimum. No more than half pot.

 

[allforcharity]

Another $1600 seems reasonable.

 

[WedgeRock]

Another $1600 seems reasonable.

A "same bet" strategy?