Tourney Structure help using my old cash set (2 Viewers)

[26bigs]

Hello, I recently upgraded my first cash set and I plan to use old one as my tournament set. Can someone guide me on how I should structure our tournament that could only last 2hrs max. We play 6-8 handed.

This is my current chip count.
$1 - 350
$5 - 200
$25 - 50
$50 - 50

 

[Taghkanic]

Are your chips denominated?

Are you planning to relabel them?

Will you have big blind antes? Rebuys?

The breakdown seems a little awkward because you have so many 1s and 5s, and so few of the rest.

You may need to get some more of the higher denoms, and possibly add a fifth chip type.

Two hours is very short even for a 6-8 person tourney. To accomplish that you will probably need a very aggressive blind structure (fast with big jumps) and/or very small starting stacks.

If the blinds are going to go up quickly to get this over in two hours, I think you definitely need at least one bigger denom.

Also if these are already denominated and you are not relabeling, I would start by multiplying each denom by 100 and thinking of it from that perspective.

 

[Mr Winberg]

For 2h I wouldn't go higher than 100BB starting stacks. The more you start with, the steaper the blinds need to be to meet the deadline, so I would prefer a smaller stack with a slower progression over a deep stack.

T1×15+T5×12+T25×5 = T200 in chips, 100 BBs.

8 players means T1600 on the table. It should end around where the BB is 80, but in turbos it often happens that it goes even longer.

Even with just 100 BBs, it's gonna be really short leves. I recommend either considering 3h or to have a bit steaper jumps, or else the levels will be very short.

Steaper levels:
1/2
2/4
3/6
5/10
7/14
Color up T1
10/20
15/30
25/50
40/80
Should end here
60/120

9 levels to BB=80 and 5 minutes for color-ups, so 115/9=about 13 minutes per level.

3h tourney:
Blinds
1/2
2/4
3/6
4/8
6/12
8/16
Color up T1
10/20
15/30
20/40
30/60
40/80
Should end here
60/120
etc...

11 levels to BB=80, 10 minutes for colour-ups and a break means 170 minutes of play. 170/11=15.5, so 15 or 16 minute levels.

 

[TheRealStephen12]

I've found the 2-3-5-8-12 small blind progression is great, with increases from 50-67% consistent throughout. With starting stacks of T400 (100BB) and short blind levels of 12 min (keeping the break to a minimum to color up the T1s), this should get done within 2 hours:

2/4
3/6
5/10
8/16
12/24
Break (Color Up T1)
20/40
30/60
50/100
80/160 (Projected end with 8 players)
120/240

For starting stacks, 15/12/9/1 will work fine and give you plenty of chips without difficulty change making.

 

[26bigs]

For 2h I wouldn't go higher than 100BB starting stacks. The more you start with, the steaper the blinds need to be to meet the deadline, so I would prefer a smaller stack with a slower progression over a deep stack.

T1×15+T5×12+T25×5 = T200 in chips, 100 BBs.

8 players means T1600 on the table. It should end around where the BB is 80, but in turbos it often happens that it goes even longer.

Even with just 100 BBs, it's gonna be really short leves. I recommend either considering 3h or to have a bit steaper jumps, or else the levels will be very short.

Steaper levels:
1/2
2/4
3/6
5/10
7/14
Color up T1
10/20
15/30
25/50
40/80
Should end here
60/120

9 levels to BB=80 and 5 minutes for color-ups, so 115/9=about 13 minutes per level.

3h tourney:
Blinds
1/2
2/4
3/6
4/8
6/12
8/16
Color up T1
10/20
15/30
20/40
30/60
40/80
Should end here
60/120
etc...

11 levels to BB=80, 10 minutes for colour-ups and a break means 170 minutes of play. 170/11=15.5, so 15 or 16 minute levels.

I like this structure. Thank you

 

[Mr Winberg]

I like this structure. Thank you

Glad to help.

If it's the two hour structure you like, here's an idea to have a roughly equivalent structure but with lopsided levels here and there to allow you to color up small denoms earlier. This leads to less change making and therefore somewhat more hands per hour:

1/2
2/4
3/6
Color up T1
5/10
10/15
10/20
15/30
Color up T5
25/50
50/75
Should end here
50/100
75/150
...

I've started doing this in my tournies, chip handling becomes less of a hassle.

 

[26bigs]

If we are down to 6-handed? Should I keep same blind structure and increase starting stack?

 

[Mr Winberg]

If we are down to 6-handed? Should I keep same blind structure and increase starting stack?

It doesn't make as big of a difference as one might think. The theory is that the tourney will end roughly when there are 20 BBs left. The reasoning is the at least one player will then have 10 or less BBs, meaning there will be lots of shoving that sooner or later brings it to an end. But there's no way to know. I have had tournaments last way longer than that, and also those that have ended long before that! I have assumed that 2h is a rule of thumb, that occasionally going past is not a problem. Let me know if 2h is a hard deadline and well have to adapt!

6 handed:

6×200=1200 in play.

"Last" blind level: 1200/20=60

60 instead of 80, so in practice it might still end at 40/80. Or maybe 25/50. But sure, maybe extend from 13 to 14 minutes per level? You have to try it out and see.

 

[Mr Winberg]

FYI @26bigs , all structures above assume that the tourney is a freezout.

 

[26bigs]

FYI @26bigs , all structures above assume that the tourney is a freezout.

Structure would be different if I allow 1 rebuy?

 

[26bigs]

It doesn't make as big of a difference as one might think. The theory is that the tourney will end roughly when there are 20 BBs left. The reasoning is the at least one player will then have 10 or less BBs, meaning there will be lots of shoving that sooner or later brings it to an end. But there's no way to know. I have had tournaments last way longer than that, and also those that have ended long before that! I have assumed that 2h is a rule of thumb, that occasionally going past is not a problem. Let me know if 2h is a hard deadline and well have to adapt!

6 handed:

6×200=1200 in play.

"Last" blind level: 1200/20=60

60 instead of 80, so in practice it might still end at 40/80. Or maybe 25/50. But sure, maybe extend from 13 to 14 minutes per level? You have to try it out and see.

I plan to add 1 rebuy before T1 color up. Do I have to adjust time to probably 10-12mins per blinds so I can still get the 2hr limit?

 

[Mr Winberg]

It depends a bit. If you think that say 2 people rebuy, thats an increase from 1600 to 2000. Now the "20 BB rule" says that it will end when the BB is around 2000/20=100.

So what does this mean in practice? Well, it means that the tourneys will drag on to 80/120 more often then they will in a freezout. But still, even then there will be 2000/120=16.7 BBs in play, so it should end fairly quickly after that.

If everyone rebuys? Then the chip count doubles from 1600 to 3200. 3200/20=160, so it will likely last another 2 levels. But at 13 minutes per level, that's just 26 minutes, perhaps not the end of the world if it ever was to happen?

Once again, it's impossible to know when it ends. My experience is that for 2h turbos the "20 BB rule" is more often breached than it is with longer tournaments.

Hopefully you will have understood the reasoning now? How to calculate the last level based on chipcount? If not, don't hesitate to ask and I'll try to explain further, but the steps in general are:
1. Estimate the chip count
2. Divide it by 20 to get the estimated last level
3. Find a structure you like
4. Set the level length by dividing the playing time (minus breaks) with how many levels there are to the estimated last level.

 

[26bigs]

It depends a bit. If you think that say 2 people rebuy, thats an increase from 1600 to 2000. Now the "20 BB rule" says that it will end when the BB is around 2000/20=100.

So what does this mean in practice? Well, it means that the tourneys will drag on to 80/120 more often then they will in a freezout. But still, even then there will be 2000/120=16.7 BBs in play, so it should end fairly quickly after that.

If everyone rebuys? Then the chip count doubles from 1600 to 3200. 3200/20=160, so it will likely last another 2 levels. But at 13 minutes per level, that's just 26 minutes, perhaps not the end of the world if it ever was to happen?

Once again, it's impossible to know when it ends. My experience is that for 2h turbos the "20 BB rule" is more often breached than it is with longer tournaments.

Hopefully you will have understood the reasoning now? How to calculate the last level based on chipcount? If not, don't hesitate to ask and I'll try to explain further, but the steps in general are:
1. Estimate the chip count
2. Divide it by 20 to get the estimated last level
3. Find a structure you like
4. Set the level length by dividing the playing time (minus breaks) with how many levels there are to the estimated last level.

This is very helpful. Thank you so much!

 

[Mr Winberg]

 

[TheRealStephen12]

Structure would be different if I allow 1 rebuy?

If you play my structure, you'd have to shorten levels by a minute each. There is really no time for rebuys since your tournament is already a turbo.

 

[26bigs]

If you play my structure, you'd have to shorten levels by a minute each. There is really no time for rebuys since your tournament is already a turbo.

I’ll test it out and see what works better. Thanks for your input!