10g or 14g or heavier? (1 Viewer)

[Skuro]

Very unlikely you going to end up with the same quality of the material even if Tina replicate the standards

Cost per unit perspective is still cheaper to get chip from Tina. An estimate gauge IMO is

10c cost per chip will net you 3/10 rating chip
30c cost per chip will net you 5/10 rating chip
$1-$2 cost will net you 8.5-9.5/10 rating chip
$4-$10^ cost will net you 9.6-10/10 rating chip

Sounds pretty exponential. I think most people here prefer approximately 11g weighted chips - not too light but not too heavy/clunky, so that kind of points me towards the realm of casino grade plastics - given the vision of the chips I have in mind.

Noted that you said that Tina might end up with lower quality material - curious if quality names like abbiati and matsui does all their manufacturing inhouse and thereby they kind of have 'unique' chips or do they outsource some production to China suppliers?

Thanks everyone for their opinions.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

Sounds pretty exponential. I think most people here prefer approximately 11g weighted chips - not too light but not too heavy/clunky, so that kind of points me towards the realm of casino grade plastics - given the vision of the chips I have in mind.

Noted that you said that Tina might end up with lower quality material - curious if quality names like abbiati and matsui does all their manufacturing inhouse and thereby they kind of have 'unique' chips or do they outsource some production to China suppliers?

Thanks everyone for their opinions.

I suspect both Abbiati and Matsui have a lot of control over their production. Abbiati is in Italy, so I doubt anything of theirs is made in China. According to their webpage, Matsui Gaming has manufacturing plants in Japan and Korea.

One thing you should keep in mind about both of them is that you have very limited choices in the colors and spot patterns with chips from both these companies. Also, the process of making their plastic chips is considerably more complicated than an injection molded ceramic chip that starts out all one color and then is printed by dye sublimation. The colors on an Abbiati or Matsui chip are not printed. A chip with three colors uses three different colors of plastic injected into a very precise mold with sections for each color. So each unique chip style requires it's own mold. The investment to make these molds is significant. If you want Tina to start making plastic chips even approaching the quality and injection method of Abbiti and Matsui, you had better be ready to buy millions of chips, or invest several hundred thousand dollars into them creating the molds and technology.

The newest web mold hybrid ceramic chips are the nicest chips Tina has come out with so far. Have you looked at them? I know you said you want smooth chips, so you may have no interest. One possible option though might be the 43mm web mold, which has a very large recess with 28mm of space for a high quality printed label. Due to their larger size, these chips do weigh almost 11g.

@SeanGecko Tina makes a smooth, no-mold hybrid chip, doesn't she? In 43mm, or only 39mm?

 

[Skuro]

I suspect both Abbiati and Matsui have a lot of control over their production. Abbiati is in Italy, so I doubt anything of theirs is made in China. According to their webpage, Matsui Gaming has manufacturing plants in Japan and Korea.

One thing you should keep in mind about both of them is that you have very limited choices in the colors and spot patterns with chips from both these companies. Also, the process of making their plastic chips is considerably more complicated than an injection molded ceramic chip that starts out all one color and then is printed by dye sublimation. The colors on an Abbiati or Matsui chip are not printed. A chip with three colors uses three different colors of plastic injected into a very precise mold with sections for each color. So each unique chip style requires it's own mold. The investment to make these molds is significant. If you want Tina to start making plastic chips even approaching the quality and injection method of Abbiti and Matsui, you had better be ready to buy millions of chips, or invest several hundred thousand dollars into them creating the molds and technology.

The newest web mold hybrid ceramic chips are the nicest chips Tina has come out with so far. Have you looked at them? I know you said you want smooth chips, so you may have no interest. One possible option though might be the 43mm web mold, which has a very large recess with 28mm of space for a high quality printed label. Due to their larger size, these chips do weigh almost 11g.

Thanks for the confirmation! I did see that Abbiati is in Italy - and thereby kind of eliminated them as an option given that i'm Asia-based and would like site visits into facillities before production. Matsui seems like the sole contender for the region, but as with any procurement, it would be nice to have alternatives.

Now understand that Tina lacks the cutting edge manufacturing that matsui/abbiati conducts which eliminates it in terms of its capabilities. Aside from Tina though, I see that sunfly has a new chip line that utilises the same procedure as matsui/abbiati to produce similar chips albeit with a very limited mold (only 1 so far I believe) - perhaps a new future contender?

But as of current, it seems that leveraging upon the already invested technology that matsui has seems like the best option, and my colour/spot pattern design process has to be centered around its available templates.

It does seem very very difficult to create a unique chip product - the technlogies involved are more complex that I would imagine.

 

[LeLe]

Noted that you said that Tina might end up with lower quality material - curious if quality names like abbiati and matsui does all their manufacturing inhouse and thereby they kind of have 'unique' chips or do they outsource some production to China suppliers?

In Summary

Poorer QC & Cheaper Materials involve leading to
-Spinners Issue
-Coloring Issue
-Height Barrel differences between different batches of production
-Edge flanking Issue

 

[LeLe]

There is no MOQ for the GB, and we are probably going to set the price at $1 each, shipping and duty cost from CN to the US are included, however kindly be aware that this cost does not include the reshipping cost within the US

^

sunfly has a new chip line that utilises the same procedure as matsui/abbiati to produce similar chips albeit with a very limited mold (only 1 so far I believe) - perhaps a new future contender?

As review by a few members that handed the samples.

They seem to be close to Matsui, and @SUN-FLY Poker Chips QC is up there compared to China Manufacturer but also commend a higher price tag for that.

I also keeping my eye on the new Sun-fly, looking to add another potential set to my collection (Not that I need anymore set thou)

 

[Taghkanic]

After 8 hours tonight of shuffling cheap weighted 14g chips, let me tell you frankly that it sucks. 10g are so much nicer.

 

[Skuro]

In Summary

Poorer QC & Cheaper Materials involve leading to
-Spinners Issue
-Coloring Issue
-Height Barrel differences between different batches of production
-Edge flanking Issue

Can totally see that happening in the listings by Tina - which are usually mass production facillities with multiple-use case manufacturing rather than specialised like the quality names. Does that happen frequently to Tina GBs?

^


As review by a few members that handed the samples.

They seem to be close to Matsui, and @SUN-FLY Poker Chips QC is up there compared to China Manufacturer but also commend a higher price tag for that.

I also keeping my eye on the new Sun-fly, looking to add another potential set to my collection (Not that I need anymore set thou)

A dollar per chip for sunfly seems reasonable haha, but I think the main consideration is that they are currently not allowing any customisation other than label text. Also the labels seem to be contrasting too strongly with the chip base. Will have to wait for their production process to mature before considering them but great to know that their QC is on point.

 

[SeanGecko]

I suspect both Abbiati and Matsui have a lot of control over their production. Abbiati is in Italy, so I doubt anything of theirs is made in China. According to their webpage, Matsui Gaming has manufacturing plants in Japan and Korea.

One thing you should keep in mind about both of them is that you have very limited choices in the colors and spot patterns with chips from both these companies. Also, the process of making their plastic chips is considerably more complicated than an injection molded ceramic chip that starts out all one color and then is printed by dye sublimation. The colors on an Abbiati or Matsui chip are not printed. A chip with three colors uses three different colors of plastic injected into a very precise mold with sections for each color. So each unique chip style requires it's own mold. The investment to make these molds is significant. If you want Tina to start making plastic chips even approaching the quality and injection method of Abbiti and Matsui, you had better be ready to buy millions of chips, or invest several hundred thousand dollars into them creating the molds and technology.

The newest web mold hybrid ceramic chips are the nicest chips Tina has come out with so far. Have you looked at them? I know you said you want smooth chips, so you may have no interest. One possible option though might be the 43mm web mold, which has a very large recess with 28mm of space for a high quality printed label. Due to their larger size, these chips do weigh almost 11g.

@SeanGecko Tina makes a smooth, no-mold hybrid chip, doesn't she? In 43mm, or only 39mm?

View attachment 1280748

Only 39mm on the plain mold hybrid

 

[springbox]

I prefer 10g because shuffling heavier chips hurts my wrist faster. I've had people remark that weightier chips feel more premium though. If you're carrying a big set (1000 chips) it'll be a decent weight difference (~8.5lbs).

 

[LeLe]

Can totally see that happening in the listings by Tina - which are usually mass production facillities with multiple-use case manufacturing rather than specialised like the quality names. Does that happen frequently to Tina GBs?

Depend on your milage.

For example, Instant Coffee vs Starbuck Coffee. (Budgeted Tina Chip vs Casino-grade Chip)

Both provide and serve its main purpose, but different people have different point view and preferences on them.

It's a matter of taste and one spending power.

No matter how much you want to improve it, Instant Coffee can only go as far as it goes.

 

[TX_Golf_N_Poker]

In Summary

Poorer QC & Cheaper Materials involve leading to
-Spinners Issue
-Coloring Issue
-Height Barrel differences between different batches of production
-Edge flanking Issue

@Skuro You also need to know that Tina chips can be very polarizing for many people here. For every person that has negative comments like the ones above, there are others who understand what the chips are (massive bang for the buck) and LOVE them!

Tina seems very much to be listening to those of us in this community that are buying these chips and have made suggestions to her regarding improvements. Each successive new mold they create seems to be improving and solving issues that we conveyed to them and asked them to address. Most of the comments above are in reference to the older Cards mold chips. The more recent hybrid molds offer big improvements in quality. The most recent Web molds are pretty spectacular, in my own humble opinion. The spinner issue is gone. I'm not aware of barrel height issues with any of the more recent chips. I'm not sure specifically what his "coloring issue" is. The colors on even the early cards mold chips were awesome, and blow away anything Sun-Fly made on a similar mold at double the cost. I have no idea what "edge flanking" is, so I can't address it. The edges on the newest Web mold chips are wonderful.

As I read more of your posts, it seems like you are wanting to make chips for commercial purpose, not for your own personal home use. If so, understand that there is a real likelihood that Tina would create a new mold just for you, and at a pretty reasonable cost or commitment to purchase chips. This has already happened with two of the existing hybrid molds that were commissioned by individuals, one who is here on PCF, and one that used to be here, but left to start his own forum. I would not discount reaching out to them to see if they could give you what you are wanting. Come up with something cool, and you have a pretty captive audience here on PCF. I just wouldn't make you new chips "too" heavy. A thin metal disk taking them to 11-12g would probably be okay, but go up to over 14g and I think you would lose most of the serious chippers here on PCF.

 

[Skuro]

@Skuro You also need to know that Tina chips can be very polarizing for many people here. For every person that has negative comments like the ones above, there are others who understand what the chips are (massive bang for the buck) and LOVE them!

Tina seems very much to be listening to those of us in this community that are buying these chips and have made suggestions to her regarding improvements. Each successive new mold they create seems to be improving and solving issues that we conveyed to them and asked them to address. Most of the comments above are in reference to the older Cards mold chips. The more recent hybrid molds offer big improvements in quality. The most recent Web molds are pretty spectacular, in my own humble opinion. The spinner issue is gone. I'm not aware of barrel height issues with any of the more recent chips. I'm not sure specifically what his "coloring issue" is. The colors on even the early cards mold chips were awesome, and blow away anything Sun-Fly made on a similar mold at double the cost. I have no idea what "edge flanking" is, so I can't address it. The edges on the newest Web mold chips are wonderful.

As I read more of your posts, it seems like you are wanting to make chips for commercial purpose, not for your own personal home use. If so, understand that there is a real likelihood that Tina would create a new mold just for you, and at a pretty reasonable cost or commitment to purchase chips. This has already happened with two of the existing hybrid molds that were commissioned by individuals, one who is here on PCF, and one that used to be here, but left to start his own forum. I would not discount reaching out to them to see if they could give you what you are wanting. Come up with something cool, and you have a pretty captive audience here on PCF. I just wouldn't make you new chips "too" heavy. A thin metal disk taking them to 11-12g would probably be okay, but go up to over 14g and I think you would lose most of the serious chippers here on PCF.

Definitely, the project is still in its early stages so I am kind of split between starting a blog or a thread here.

Appreciate the insight into Tina, truly think it is bang for buck (which is why it was foremost in mind) but I think perhaps in the prototyping process, I would use matsui to generate the minimum viable product, given the technological limitations highlighted, and then see what can Tina quote me for a certain production volume. Very late stage considerations though haha.

I think the conclusion is that its going to be somewhere in the 12g range, since 14g is a hard sell for chippers and < 10g feels cheap. So likely going to go with the nylon 40mm one at 12.3g which is sturdier than the ABS one at 11.0g. Will have to check out the colours though.

Now just time for my graphic designer to come up with a first iteration and then find someone here to help me with the revisions Thats gonna be a thread in the mockups and design topic.

 

[ovo]

I see a lot of different comments about weight. It's a subjective thing. The choice I made for the higher weight has nothing to do with the idea that more weight means better quality, or sound. The only reason I like heavier is simply because it feels better to me. Having played with all the weight ranges, that is what I like best,, as long as it's uniform weight within reason.

 

[VicVega]

I've always liked the weight and feel of the 10g chips.

 

[BGinGA]

likely going to go with the nylon 40mm one at 12.3g which is sturdier than the ABS one at 11.0g.

Your Nylon option is likely to be similar to what is considered 'ceramic' around here, although it's probably weighted in some fashion (or possibly thicker than a 'standard' chip). 39mm x 3.3mm ceramic chips are typically 10g with no added weights.

ABS typically sucks ballz as a chip material, especially if incorporating a metal slug for extra weight. For most 39-40mm plastic chips, unslugged = 9.0-9.5g and slugged = 11.0-14.0g, pending the slug size and metal choice. Most metal-slugged chips (especially cheaper/harder ABS) use steel, and have a horrible metallic clanking sound.

The big differences between inexpensive Chinese-produced injection-molded plastic chips and the high-end plastic chips made by casino-suppliers (like B&G, Bud Jones, Abbiati, Matsui, and Sun-Fly) are that the high-end chips contain higher-quality and customized blends of materials, are produced to higher tolerances using better QC/QA-controlled processes, and utilize post-production finishing processes (machining/polishing) that ensure a consistent and high quality end product. All of those things cost money, and are reflected in the significantly higher selling prices of the products.

You are unlikely to be granted access to any chip-making facility that produces currency for the gaming industry. The production of gaming tokens is highly protected for product security and proprietary process reasons.

As for having a new poker chip mold designed from scratch, I can offer a few references from previous enquiries:

~ unique design 40mm plastic injection-mold with three colors: $500 (2014, this was designed to work with existing equipment)
~ unique design 43mm debossed ceramic blank mold: $2000 (2023)
~ unique design 39mm compression-clay mold: $10000 (2016)

All quoted new mold prices were tied to a minimum order requirement.