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SOLD 20 - Purple Nevada Lodge $25 Sm. Crown chips (3 Viewers)

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gopherblue said:
. Essentially, you were saying “if someone outbids Matt, I will bid against you in retaliation.”
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That’s utterly ludicrous. I’m not friendly with Matt, and he and I hardly communicate. But I was reminded, when I got his PM, that he had even tried to buy some of my $25s. I was just doing someone a favor by stepping down.

My response to Mel’s “not so fast” was to clarify that I wasn’t fully stepping away from the auction, and if Matt eventually decided that the auction had gotten too pricey for him, I would eventually step back in. Not as retaliation, but because I want the chips. I have already bid on this auction 3 times.

The irony here is that if I had stepped away and the auction had gotten too expensive for Matt and I started bidding again, there would an uproar that I broke my word and had been deceptive about not bidding.
 
OK, I tried to say it In a funny way. Maybe that wasn't direct enough.

The price is $1500 for 20 fn chips. Any assertion that there is collision here is just galactically stupid. If anyone thinks they are colliding to keep the price down, put in a bid. If you don't, it has nothing to do with you so shut up already.

 
6980B8FB-F0EE-4098-B0D5-4A7CA0BB08ED.jpeg
 
“That’s utterly ludicrous. I’m not friendly with Matt, and he and I hardly communicate. But I was reminded, when I got his PM, that he had even tried
to buy some of my $25s. I was just doing someone a favor by stepping down.”

I don’t think anyone believes that there were bad intentions here but this is kind of the essence of what makes it murky. When ww says ‘favor’ he clearly doesn’t have some kind of under the table understanding with Matt and isn’t expecting anything in return but there are situations where exchanging of favours is a way to bribe someone without a paper trail.

If they had bad intentions though we’d never hear about it - they’d just exchange pms and keep silent.
 
Stufflymcstuff said:
“That’s utterly ludicrous. I’m not friendly with Matt, and he and I hardly communicate. But I was reminded, when I got his PM, that he had even tried
to buy some of my $25s. I was just doing someone a favor by stepping down.”

I don’t think anyone believes that there were bad intentions here but this is kind of the essence of what makes it murky. When ww says ‘favor’ he clearly doesn’t have some kind of under the table understanding with Matt and isn’t expecting anything in return but there are situations where exchanging of favours is a way to bribe someone without a paper trail.

If they had bad intentions though we’d never hear about it - they’d just exchange pms and keep silent.
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@Windwalker attempted to do me a solid today which he didn’t have to do. Unfortunately the water got a little murky with accusations and such by many I personally was surprised to see chiming in.

If you know me, or have ever done business with me, you know that my WORD counts! If you want to accuse me of something, MAKE IT LOAD AND CLEAR!!
The only thing many of you made clear is that you have NO IDEA what your talking about.

So I’ll say it once, there was NO collusion going on between @Windwalker and I. Krish was simply trying to do me a solid by stepping back after I made a bid of $75 per that only a handful of people on here would legitimately make to add to their personal sets.

I bid what I bid because the chips meant that TO ME, not because they were going on eBay for $100 per before they ever arrived if I were to win this auction.

Just amazing what this community has become. If it weren’t for the love of what I have spent so many years building and some of the really great people I have met through this hobby, I’d been gone a long time ago.
 
Lil Tuna said:
@Windwalker attempted to do me a solid today which he didn’t have to do. Unfortunately the water got a little murky with accusations and such by many I personally was surprised to see chiming in.

If you know me, or have ever done business with me, you know that my WORD counts! If you want to accuse me of something, MAKE IT LOAD AND CLEAR!!
The only thing many of you made clear is that you have NO IDEA what your talking about.

So I’ll say it once, there was NO collusion going on between @Windwalker and I. Krish was simply trying to do me a solid by stepping back after I made a bid of $75 per that only a handful of people on here would legitimately make to add to their personal sets.

I bid what I bid because the chips meant that TO ME, not because they were going on eBay for $100 per before they ever arrived if I were to win this auction.

Just amazing what this community has become. If it weren’t for the love of what I have spent so many years building and some of the really great people I have met through this hobby, I’d been gone a long time ago.
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Pls don't leave the forum, 1 day I would love to do business with you!
 
I don't think any of this crazy would have happened, if everyone could just either bid, or not bid, and hold commentary.



But when a winner is declared with 2 days left in the auction...

Windwalker said:
They’re all yours.
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And public statements about who you're willing to bid against and who you'll step aside for...

Windwalker said:
Please note that I was acquiescing to Matt because he PM’ed me. If he ends up dropping out, I will jump back in.
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....yeah, that's going to cause a raised eyebrow or two. It impacts bidding, no doubt.

A lot of unnecessary drama here today. How about we just bid or don't bid, and leave it at that?

These are now out of my price range. My grail chips, no secret about that. For the record....many months ago, I did Tuna a solid too. The reason he has a playable amount of these chips is because I shared mine with him, the prize chips from my grail set. I did this because I know he loves them just as much as I do, we are bonded over Nevada Lodge. As badly as I want these chips, I also told him today that I would step aside so he could add these to get close to a rack. Like Matt, I like to think my word means something.

At this point, congrats @JWC. And good luck to anyone with future bids here. They're the dream TRK chips.
 
liftapint said:
I don't think any of this crazy would have happened, if everyone could just either bid, or not bid, and hold commentary.



But when a winner is declared with 2 days left in the auction...




And public statements about who you're willing to bid against and who you'll step aside for...



....yeah, that's going to cause a raised eyebrow or two. It impacts bidding, no doubt.

A lot of unnecessary drama here today. How about we just bid or don't bid, and leave it at that?

These are now out of my price range. My grail chips, no secret about that. For the record....many months ago, I did Tuna a solid too. The reason he has a playable amount of these chips is because I shared mine with him, the prize chips from my grail set. I did this because I know he loves them just as much as I do, we are bonded over Nevada Lodge. As badly as I want these chips, I also told him today that I would step aside so he could add these to get close to a rack. Like Matt, I like to think my word means something.

At this point, congrats @JWC. And good luck to anyone with future bids here. They're the dream TRK chips.
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Mel,
I can’t thank you enough for all your help over the years and I greatly appreciate your yield to me in this auction as well.
I thought about mentioning it but I always feel it’s best to let one speak for themselves.

Not only have you helped me get my dream set of NL/NCs playable, you also helped me get my much loved PH set to where it is today also.
Will always be grateful for your help. :love:
 
Windwalker said:
That’s utterly ludicrous. I’m not friendly with Matt, and he and I hardly communicate. But I was reminded, when I got his PM, that he had even tried to buy some of my $25s. I was just doing someone a favor by stepping down.

My response to Mel’s “not so fast” was to clarify that I wasn’t fully stepping away from the auction, and if Matt eventually decided that the auction had gotten too pricey for him, I would eventually step back in. Not as retaliation, but because I want the chips. I have already bid on this auction 3 times.

The irony here is that if I had stepped away and the auction had gotten too expensive for Matt and I started bidding again, there would an uproar that I broke my word and had been deceptive about not bidding.
Click to expand...

Perhaps that was not your intent (and, I think I'm safe in saying, certainly not Matt's intent), but I was simply illustrating how the chain of posts read to outside observers, myself included. And I think, based on others' posts, as well as in offline messages, my view was not alone. I was careful to say that the series of posts "smells a bit like collusion", not that it was collusion, in that it had an air of cooperation to the detriment of the seller and other bidders. But in hindsight I concede that I should have used a less pejorative word, as noted by @redwine below (perhaps I should have said it seemed a bit like "shenanigans"). He also makes the same overall point that I was seeking to make, although much more eloquently:

redwine said:
The word "collusion" has a really negative connotation with it that usually implies ill-intent. In this specific case there may not have been malicious intent, but it does seem that the auction result has changed in two ways:
  1. Through PMs, @Windwalker was convinced not to bid higher, denying the seller $$ (the fact that people consider the price "high" is irrelevant. only the counterfactual matters)
  2. @Windwalker declaring his intent to potentially jump back in changes future bidding behavior of participants
Whether this is okay or not seems ideological. What seems undeniable to me is the auction price is currently lower than what it would have been otherwise.
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However, Redwine's post doesn't specifically address the key part of your statement (or at the very least, implied by your statement) that if Matt is outbid, you would jump back in (and potentially outbid anyone else). To an outside observer, a logical inference from that statement is that others should stay away. None of us can see the state of mind of any others--after all, as the saying goes, on the internet, no one knows you are a dog--and while your intentions may have been wholly innocent, as @Hornet noted in his post, there was a lot to unpack in the statements, from the perspective of others. And in the context of reading the posts contemporaneously as they were posted, a number of folks concluded that your statements meant that you'd step back for Matt, but you'd outbid anyone else, and this had an air of retaliation to it. This has the effect of influencing other bidders and a chilling effect on the auction, whether it was your intent or not. I can't speak for @JWC, or other bidders, but if I was in either of their shoes I would not be happy.

And to be clear, I am not throwing bombs here. My interest is in a fair and efficient market, as it is in the best interest of all of us as buyers and sellers, as well as for the health of the forum and the community. (Thus, I wont bother with responding to @Pgheddie, as his posts are just nonsense.)
 
Lil Tuna said:
@Windwalker attempted to do me a solid today which he didn’t have to do. Unfortunately the water got a little murky with accusations and such by many I personally was surprised to see chiming in.

If you know me, or have ever done business with me, you know that my WORD counts! If you want to accuse me of something, MAKE IT LOAD AND CLEAR!!
The only thing many of you made clear is that you have NO IDEA what your talking about.

So I’ll say it once, there was NO collusion going on between @Windwalker and I. Krish was simply trying to do me a solid by stepping back after I made a bid of $75 per that only a handful of people on here would legitimately make to add to their personal sets.

I bid what I bid because the chips meant that TO ME, not because they were going on eBay for $100 per before they ever arrived if I were to win this auction.

Just amazing what this community has become. If it weren’t for the love of what I have spent so many years building and some of the really great people I have met through this hobby, I’d been gone a long time ago.
Click to expand...
Matt, I don't recall if we've met at a meetup or not. I'm assuming that your post is directed at a few of us, including me. For my part, I have no reason to doubt your integrity or your word. I would hope that you feel the same about me, as I believe others on this forum who know me do. I understand your frustration, but I think that I, and others who have expressed the same concerns in this thread, posted about it because we care about this place as a community. Based on his subsequent posts, I now think that Krish did not intend his statements to color the auction. But raising the concern about how those initial posts read to others is not a detriment to the community or the hobby.

For the use of the word collusion, I apologize--it was a bit too harsh.
 
What do I see? Who cares! Haha. I see one with multiple racks of these chips overbidding their generally accepted value. I see 2 others who’ve been priced out who haven’t been able to put a rack together. And then the rest of us who want to try at putting something together but read this thread. It’s why I don’t trust auctions here.
 
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