40K Guaranteed Tourney Hand - How To Extract Value Here? (2 Viewers)

[Anthony Martino]

Playing the $340 deepstack multi-day 40K guaranteed tourney at Silks Day 1A yesterday.

Blinds are 100/200. We started with 20K chips. For this hand:

Hero: 20K
Villain: 18K


Villain is named Mitch and is well known in this room. He minraises UTG blind a lot in tourneys and has done so on this hand, prior to his cards being dealt.

Hero is UTG+2 and calls 400 with

There are five players seeing the flop:

Pot: 2K

Flop:

Everyone checks.

Turn:

Mitch bets 1500 into the 2K pot, Hero?

 

[Frogzilla]

Definitely raising a turned set with that many straight and flush draws on the board. Need to isolate and be ready to get it in. I’d raise to 7k or so and be prepared to call a villain jam.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Definitely raising a turned set with that many straight and flush draws on the board. Need to isolate and/or get it in here.

How much?

 

[Frogzilla]

Published too soon...I’d pot sized raise to 7k I think.

 

[ilovegravy]

I agree with Frogzilla. I'm putting in a sizeable raise. Hopefully it gets a few folds and we get to the river heads up (and hope for a brick). You're basically drawing dead to 99 and 66, and you're behind 45. Otherwise you are out in front. Seems reasonable to assume any of them are in the hand. If they are, and you lose, that's just poker. Other than that, you're in a good spot here.

 

[GenghisKhan]

Raise enough to win it now I say.

 

[Frogzilla]

I agree with Frogzilla. I'm putting in a sizeable raise. Hopefully it gets a few folds and we get to the river heads up (and hope for a brick). You're basically drawing dead to 99 and 66, and you're behind 45. Otherwise you are out in front. Seems reasonable to assume any of them are in the hand. If they are, and you lose, that's just poker. Other than that, you're in a good spot here.

I don’t expect to see many sets. Most of those should be betting the flop with 5 in and that many draws

 

[upNdown]

I don’t expect to see many sets. Most of those should be betting the flop with 5 in and that many draws

I'm not sure about that. Somebody with top set could easily check the flop. And there are three other players to act - three other players who practically limped. There could be anything out there. Call me a nit, but I hate this hand, with bottom set, out of position, with two possible flush draws and a straight draw. I HATE flatting in this situation, but its my only option besides folding. Because in a tournament, I'm not putting 100 big blinds in on a set of 3's on this board.

 

[colter ripton]

I'm just calling.

I don't like a small set in a 5 way pot. It's a good way to lose all your money. Early in the tournament I'm taking the conservative route and just calling. 45 suited is there already, and there could easily be 6s in the mix or possibly 9s.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Pot 2k

Villain bets 1500
Hero raises to 5k

Folds to Villain who studies Hero quizzically and eventually calls

Villain checks dark verbally as dealer puts out the river



Pot 12k

Hero has 15k and Villain 13k. Villain checked datk, Hero?

 

[PlaidDragon]

Playing the $340 deepstack multi-day 40K guaranteed tourney at Silks Day 1A yesterday.

Blinds are 100/200. We started with 20K chips. For this hand:

Hero: 20K
Villain: 18K


Villain is named Mitch and is well known in this room. He minraises UTG blind a lot in tourneys and has done so on this hand, prior to his cards being dealt.

Hero is UTG+2 and calls 400 with

There are five players seeing the flop:

Pot: 2K

Flop:

Everyone checks.

Turn:

Mitch bets 1500 into the 2K pot, Hero?

Too many players to hit the gas. With 4 other players I'd gather two of them are on the draw for the straight or flush; and there's always the chance that one of them flopped a better set than you.

Calling seems smartest and hope that a larger hand doesn't come over the top at that point.

 

[colter ripton]

Well the 9 is a good card for us. Now all we really have to worry about is pocket 6s or maybe something like 96. I mean he did raise blind right? I'm probably still going to check back. If we bet like 5k and get jammed on we pretty much have to call and it's probably over.

 

[colter ripton]

Well we still have about 10k behind if we bet 5 and get raised all in so I guess we don't have to call a shove. I'm still checking though it's a nice size pot already for early in the tournament and I'm not risking anymore with the 3s.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Villain minraised UTG dark before the cards were dealt

Villain checked the flush and straight draw flop and only bet after another flush draw appeared on the turn (and also a card that brings a straight possible with 45)

Villain just called our raise on the turn and checked dark going to the river

What range of hands do you believe he has in this spot and can we extract additional value?

 

[colter ripton]

Villain minraised UTG dark before the cards were dealt

Villain checked the flush and straight draw flop and only bet after another flush draw appeared on the turn (and also a card that brings a straight possible with 45)

Villain just called our raise on the turn and checked dark going to the river

What range of hands do you believe he has in this spot and can we extract additional value?

I think he could easily have like 96 or 93 or 92. He could also have 6s. If I flop two pair or a set on that board I'm checking in first position and looking to re raise. I'm probably also betting the turn when it gets checked around. He could have about anything. I don't think he has 45 though because it is the nuts on the turn and he isn't going to smooth call the nuts with all of those draws out there. Looks more like 2 pair or a possible set to me. That's why I'm checking back, and I'm ok losing some value if he turns over like ace 9.

 

[Frogzilla]

Villain minraised UTG dark before the cards were dealt

Villain checked the flush and straight draw flop and only bet after another flush draw appeared on the turn (and also a card that brings a straight possible with 45)

Villain just called our raise on the turn and checked dark going to the river

What range of hands do you believe he has in this spot and can we extract additional value?

Any 9, 45 definitely calling. You’re ahead of that range I think. Also could be getting a call from a 6, or 77,88 depending on how bluffy your image is.

 

[BGinGA]

I'm raising to 6500 on the turn, I don't want the flush draws staying in for cheap.

As played, I'm checking back on the river. Might lose some value, but better than going broke or getting crippled this early in the tournament. A dark pre-flop raiser could have anything, including several hands that beats ours.


By checking the river dark, what hand range do you think he's putting YOU on?

 

[Steve Birrer]

All the dark plays he is making turns his hand into dangerous stuff. I see no value in doing anything on the river other than checking. If he check raises you are likely screwed and its not too likely with that board that he is check raising unless he has a really good hand. He probably folds to most any river bet you make OR reraises.

And I am with most others post turn. I am raising. I like my hand right now but too many ways for it to go south. I want as many players to fold post flop as I can.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Hero bets 3k. Hero figures this will look like he whiffed a combo draw on the river and is trying to buy it cheap, which might embolden Villain to play back

Villain check raises all-in, Hero?

 

[BGinGA]

Argh. Minus any reads or big-bluff history with the villain, fold. If he's competent, he's not making that play with 45 or worse.

 

[upNdown]

No, villain has to have the nuts here. Because with that 3k bet, you’re begging for a call; you’re representing the nuts. Villain jamming over the top of that in the second hour of a deep sack tournament means he has 99, 96 or he’s just insane.
I think that 3k river bet was a bad mistake.

 

[Frogzilla]

I call here but I think I call too much. He easily can have just a 9. Or a missed flush draw. In villains position, i jam here with some of my missed flush draws

 

[Burke]

Call

 

[Anthony Martino]

Hero calls figuring he got villain to fall into his trap, but was 2 outered when villain tabled 92 for a better boat

I continued losing at 1/2 NL (200 max) for a few hours afterward

Raised AA and on a flush draw flop a shorter stack with $81 left soved over my $20 c-bet with 96 s00ted and rivered his flush

Then raised AA again and had a lady in the SB call with 22 and the flop was Q72

Then raised QQ and two callers go to war on a king high flop so I got out of the way

Fortunately there were some super fish stations plus a drunk with 1k in front of him

I put $580 in buyins as I kept myself topped up and was able to turn it around, cashing out for $875

Picked the drunks bluffs off on multiple occasions, value towned the stations, hit a lucky flop for all the chips with KK against AQ on an AKQ flop

The drunk burned through his 1k (although coolered a few times, floped three tens against the guy next to him that had the case 10 and boated, also got it in with three of a kind against a station who had top pair and rivered the two outer)

Drunk reached back into his pocket and lost another $300 before giving up

 

[mabel.5]

Fold pre. Otherwise played fine. Always raise the turn - bunch of nits itt. I’m definitely getting it in on the river. Way too many missed draws to fold there.

 

[upNdown]

I can’t get over this, @Anthony Martino and I’m absolutely not trying to bash you, I’m just looking for some insight. I spent 4 hours in the car yesterday (making a fireworks run - early 4th of July shopping) and me and my buddy spent a long time discussing this hand.
I think there were mistakes made on both sides of this hand, but the river baffles me.
What were you thinking with the 3k bet? By my count, there are 14 hands that beat you. At that point you can check it down with your beatable boat, and worst case scenario, you’ve still got 75 big blinds. That 3k bet isn’t getting called by anything you beat, except possibly the straight.
And then when he jammed all in, he’s either got you beat, or he’s just bluffing. And what kind of maniac would bluff off his whole stack at that point in the tournament?
You could have licked your wounds and still walked away with 60 big blinds.
Like I said, I just don’t understand it. From what you’ve posted in the past, im pretty sure you’re a good tournament player, but getting it all in that early in the tournament, with that stack under those circumstances just seems like suicide.

 

[Gunnar]

I can’t get over this, @Anthony Martino and I’m absolutely not trying to bash you, I’m just looking for some insight. I spent 4 hours in the car yesterday (making a fireworks run - early 4th of July shopping) and me and my buddy spent a long time discussing this hand.
I think there were mistakes made on both sides of this hand, but the river baffles me.
What were you thinking with the 3k bet? By my count, there are 14 hands that beat you. At that point you can check it down with your beatable boat, and worst case scenario, you’ve still got 75 big blinds. That 3k bet isn’t getting called by anything you beat, except possibly the straight.
And then when he jammed all in, he’s either got you beat, or he’s just bluffing. And what kind of maniac would bluff off his whole stack at that point in the tournament?
You could have licked your wounds and still walked away with 60 big blinds.
Like I said, I just don’t understand it. From what you’ve posted in the past, im pretty sure you’re a good tournament player, but getting it all in that early in the tournament, with that stack under those circumstances just seems like suicide.

Well Im that kind of maniac just to throw it out there.....

But I have to agree I think you got a really bad EV on that 3k bet.

 

[mabel.5]

The bet is perfectly sized because the turn raise made the pot too small to just jam. We get called by lots of 9x, the straight, and induces bluffs. This bet isn’t thin at all. Stop getting hung up on “early in the tournament” (doesn’t matter) or “never bluffs” (if you go down this line of thinking you are exploitable). We should be first pumping to get it in here. It’s a cooler. Move on to the next one.

 

[Anthony Martino]

Because I bellieved this particular player is capable of running a bluff in that spt

I raised to 5k onthe turn and onlly bet 3k on the river

I want him to read me for a whiffed combo draw and think he can take it away

 

[upNdown]

Stop getting hung up on “early in the tournament” (doesn’t matter)

Why do you say that?
I guess when I say early in the tournament, I really mean when you have a big stack, more specifically a high M.