Anyone Ever Get Burned Out on Hosting? (2 Viewers)

[Moxie Mike]

I've been running the Moxie Poker League for over 5 years dating back to pre-pandemic days. We kicked off Season 10 of league play last month after the summer break. We play in my corporate office after hours, which is a great setting for private games. During the pandemic, I ran online games using P-Stars' free money tables.

Over the years I've made a lot of good friends and business contacts I wouldn't otherwise have met. But I initially started the league to recruit cash game players, and now that I can consistently fill 7 or 8 seats for mixed games, I'm feeling much less enthusiastic about running the league - to the point that I don't even participate in league events since I much prefer the cash table. I just run the tournaments while I'm playing cash.

Furthermore, the league has kind of taken on a life of it's own to the point where it now feels like an obligation. League events routinely attract 20-25 players and some of the longer tenured players are seeming to develop a sense of entitlement about it. Another thing that I'm finding myself feeling annoyed by is the fact that I'm often contacted by people that I don't know who want to participate or people trying to get their friends into the league when I've clearly articulated a 'First Rule of Fight Club' policy on numerous occasions.

It's also become a burden on my time - anyone who has ever ran a league knows what the requirements are. As my consulting biz has grown, running poker games is a less-than-ideal use of my time.

So the obvious answer is to stop doing it, but there are a lot of people who enjoy it and it's been a good opportunity to meet people and showcase my office. I really don't want to deprive people of what's kind of a unique playing experience. Also, many people who play in the league are women - and they routinely express their appreciation for being able to play the game they enjoy in a 100% safe environment.

Has anyone ever experienced anything like this? Did you quit or find someone else to run things? How did you handle it?

 

[JMC9389]

I think everyone at one point or another gets burnt out a bit and wants to take a break, whether it's from playing, hosting, or both.

Do you have anyone you trust to run the game in your place if you decide to step aside for a few weeks or few months? If you still enjoy playing the cash games but don't want to be burdened with the organization side of it, I'm sure there is someone that would take care of the didactic aspect of the game.

The one thing to consider is that once you get that fire or that urge to play again, would you be able to get your game back if you abruptly shut down shop? Anyone that's worth keeping around would understand I think but you never know.

It also sounds like the game has gotten a bit too big for what you'd like it to be. From that aspect, I'd just make it clear that it's a closed game and that you're not actively recruiting new players at this time. Again, anyone worth keeping around would get it.

 

[CraigT78]

I'm at a point where my game is dying. Partly by my own hand and partly due to forces beyond my control.

Last year I decided to drop HoldEm. I don't enjoy playing it, so I modified my league tournament to be PLO/HoldEm. That single decision lead to a drop in attendance. No big deal, I thought. I still fill up the cash game no problem.

Then Texas politics forced out several of my players who moved to states more friendly to their families needs.

Now I struggle to get a solid 7. Recruiting is difficult for the stakes and game selection we play. Thankfully we are planning our own move in 3 years - so I'm hopeful I can limp along in that time, otherwise the meetup circuit might be my only home games for the near future.

Good luck, and always be recruiting.

 

[TheRealTeddyKGB]

I have a similar story @Moxie Mike. I ran a Poker League (albeit smaller than yours/only 2 tables) for about 10 years. I was starting to get tired of all the entitled tenured players complaining about the smallest things when I was busting my @$$ trying to keep things going plus adding things over time to keep things fresh. It was becoming a chore.

Then Covid happened.

My game/player base was rattled. People's priorities changed. Some people moved & others took up new jobs so they no longer had the flexibility to show up every week. Bummed we had a hard time filling a table after lockdown ended but I was relieved I didn't have to run the Tournament Series anymore.

Today my game is on the rebound. Mostly because of some really cool people I've met here. Don't think it's rebounded enough to get a Series going yet but by the time I get my 2nd table refelted I think I have the interest & energy to try.

 

[Machine]

i would look for some one else to help, if you offer to mentor who ever takes over, or just explain that it is too much to do by yourself and see if there are volunteers that would help with different aspects. Break it down to a few lists of things that need to be done. Take the time to discuss how you want things to be and why.

 

[ngmcs8203]

I have a similar story @Moxie Mike. I ran a Poker League (albeit smaller than yours/only 2 tables) for about 10 years. I was starting to get tired of all the entitled tenured players complaining about the smallest things when I was busting my @$$ trying to keep things going plus adding things over time to keep things fresh. It was becoming a chore.

Then Covid happened.

My game/player base was rattled. People's priorities changed. Some people moved & others took up new jobs so they no longer had the flexibility to show up every week. Bummed we had a hard time filling a table after lockdown ended but I was relieved I didn't have to run the Tournament Series anymore.

Today my game is on the rebound. Mostly because of some really cool people I've met here. Don't think it's rebounded enough to get a Series going yet but by the time I get my 2nd table refelted I think I have the interest & energy to try.

View attachment 1213641

I can’t wait!

 

[NeutronHim]

Here's a bit of a different take that might be worth considering:
Don't know if the "league" is currently monetized, but seems like it's not. This seems like a perfect opportunity to monetize it.

As your group starts becoming less close friends and just generally larger, it doesn't feel as fun to do something nice for them but it does feel like a huge waste of connections made to just let the league die there.

Especially since the consulting business is yours, you own (?) that property and have made all of the connections. The way I see it, you have done all the hard work to get a home or home-like game running. There's also nothing intrinsically unbecoming about monetization; you offer a service that you can't feasibly continue offering out of the good of your heart, but also one that you can't conscionably stop offering because of how many people that would harm. The alternative (in the case that no one else will run the game out of the goodness of their heart) to finding a middle ground between your desire and the desire of your players is that no game runs.

Don't know how the details would end up going. Maybe buy a couple nice meals for the players, hire someone to run the league for you, probably a few dealers, and charge them a seat fee that's enough to cover costs and turn a profit of whatever it needs to be to justify the extra work in your mind.

 

[ngmcs8203]

Here's a bit of a different take that might be worth considering:
Don't know if the "league" is currently monetized, but seems like it's not. This seems like a perfect opportunity to monetize it.

As your group starts becoming less close friends and just generally larger, it doesn't feel as fun to do something nice for them but it does feel like a huge waste of connections made to just let the league die there.

Especially since the consulting business is yours, you own (?) that property and have made all of the connections. The way I see it, you have done all the hard work to get a home or home-like game running. There's also nothing intrinsically unbecoming about monetization; you offer a service that you can't feasibly continue offering out of the good of your heart, but also one that you can't conscionably stop offering because of how many people that would harm. The alternative (in the case that no one else will run the game out of the goodness of their heart) to finding a middle ground between your desire and the desire of your players is that no game runs.

Don't know how the details would end up going. Maybe buy a couple nice meals for the players, hire someone to run the league for you, probably a few dealers, and charge them a seat fee that's enough to cover costs and turn a profit of whatever it needs to be to justify the extra work in your mind.

That sounds like it would attract unwanted attention.

 

[Eriks]

Here's a bit of a different take that might be worth considering:
Don't know if the "league" is currently monetized, but seems like it's not. This seems like a perfect opportunity to monetize it.

As your group starts becoming less close friends and just generally larger, it doesn't feel as fun to do something nice for them but it does feel like a huge waste of connections made to just let the league die there.

Especially since the consulting business is yours, you own (?) that property and have made all of the connections. The way I see it, you have done all the hard work to get a home or home-like game running. There's also nothing intrinsically unbecoming about monetization; you offer a service that you can't feasibly continue offering out of the good of your heart, but also one that you can't conscionably stop offering because of how many people that would harm. The alternative (in the case that no one else will run the game out of the goodness of their heart) to finding a middle ground between your desire and the desire of your players is that no game runs.

Don't know how the details would end up going. Maybe buy a couple nice meals for the players, hire someone to run the league for you, probably a few dealers, and charge them a seat fee that's enough to cover costs and turn a profit of whatever it needs to be to justify the extra work in your mind.

I think that would just add to the strain, turning a chore into work. Once people start paying for a service they’ll expect to get their monies worth. Plus what it’d potentially do to the legality of the game.

I would just quit doing the league and focus on cashgames. Hosting tournaments is such a headache, I couldn’t even imagine doing it semi regularly let alone a weekly league.

 

[improviseallday]

If there's any interest, I would mentor someone to take over at the start of Season 11.

If there's no interest, I would wind down the league at the end of the season. Maybe spin up something smaller to keep a pipeline of new regulars to your cash game.

 

[tabletalker7]

I have heard this story before. Hell, I almost got suckered into a similar story myself. Host like cash games way more than tournaments. Host ends up hosting some tournaments since it does help find cash players. Tournament players convince host to run tournament league. League consumes all of host's time and host no longer has time for the cash games that are desired because they are hosting way too many tournaments that are not desired.

The big issue here is that while tournaments can help you find more cash players, leagues help you find more tournament players. It may be time for you to "pass off the league" to a new host - preferably to one of those entitled people who just can't live without it - and go back to cash and the occasional tournament that helps find more cash players. I know it seems like a step in the wrong direction, but the truth is the league led you toward more tournaments that you don't like and away from the cash games you do like, which makes the league the actual step in the wrong direction.

 

[buzzmonkey]

I only host twice per year,vso the burnout factor applies. But in the regular games I attend I try to always show my appreciation and let the host know I'm grateful for their efforts.

 

[Statesvegas]

I am with the camp that thinks finding someone else to assume responsibility for the league is likely the best option. You can continue to participate in the league as you deem appropriate, which will also allow you to selectively recruit for your cash games as the future may require (and it will).

 

[detroitdad]

Sounds like you need a "dedicated" league director.

 

[WedgeRock]

and showcase my office. I really don't want to deprive people of what's kind of a unique playing experience.

If you're too successful or too rich or too busy, don't worry about us peons.

 

[krafticus]

I still love hosting my game. Started hosting roughly 15 years ago, but the league thing I do has been running for several years (even though I call this season 5, its more like season 10). My player base is great, and I enjoy spending time with them. poker is really secondary for me. Most of players can run the game without me if needed, which helps with color ups, bust outs, etc...

I mean, I hate cleaning up after everything (is there anything worse than cleaning a hot dog roller after a night of poker??) , but the set up and stuff is simple. I've now got everything down as a science too.

So, I'm in the still love hosting camp.

 

[Mojo1312]

Mike, you have already answered the two essential questions imo, which is what kind of premium do you put on your time and do you enjoy the game. By those two measures, the league tournament has run its course. In the words of Stephen Colbert, "It is time to cut bait." Give the players a month's notice that they have to find another venue.

The only other alternative from my perspective, and this is assuming you are running a weekly game, is to cut back the tournament to once a month. Ideally, on its own night so you can get max enjoyment out of your cash game.

 

[CraigT78]

Mike, you have already answered the two essential questions imo, which is what kind of premium do you put on your time and do you enjoy the game. By those two measures, the league tournament has run its course. In the words of Stephen Colbert, "It is time to cut bait." Give the players a month's notice that they have to find another venue.

The only other alternative from my perspective, and this is assuming you are running a weekly game, is to cut back the tournament to once a month. Ideally, on its own night so you can get max enjoyment out of your cash game.

I'd give more than a month. I'd announce that I'm cutting off the venue and host duties, and if the game is as enjoyable as OP states, someone will likely volunteer to take it over. I'd give 90 days notice to allow for a transfer of power.

 

[Mojo1312]

I'd give more than a month. I'd announce that I'm cutting off the venue and host duties, and if the game is as enjoyable as OP states, someone will likely volunteer to take it over. I'd give 90 days notice to allow for a transfer of power.

90 days is a long time for someone whose heart and mind has already checked out.

 

[Highli99]

Hosting tournaments is hard work. I only host one or two per year for that reason. I do have friends who only like to play tournaments which is one reason I continue to host them occationally.

Leagues of any type are always a lot of work too. Although fun to manage, can quickly become a a burden.

 

[CraigT78]

90 days is a long time for someone whose heart and mind has already checked out.

Sure, but you owe it to those who come to play!

 

[doublebooyah85]

Sick set up. Love it!!!

And yes hosting is fun, but certainly a grind sometimes. And I too get annoyed when friends or guests extend invites without telling me first. I’m at the point now where I’m done recruiting and if we can’t kick off a game I’m cancelling.

I was thinking the other day I wish my dealer would organize the cash games sometimes. Send out the invites and organize bc he’s already the big winner (takes home $400-$800 a night. No rake!). Even when someone tips the house I split it with him. I’m thankful my friend of 30 years w 3 kids deals till 3am, never complains and always helps me clean up.

We don’t run a league. That would be an extra grind. Usually cash games over tournaments as well. Tournaments bring more people (can be annoying) but they do end earlier (that’s a plus).

Take a break @Moxie Mike. I think the best thing for a game is habit and routine, but an extended break so everyone’s wallets can get fat and they miss it is also good. However I wouldn’t do it during the fall or winter. Those are the best poker months.

And again, sick set up!!!

 

[ekricket]

Also, many people who play in the league are women - and they routinely express their appreciation for being able to play the game they enjoy in a 100% safe environment.

Sounds like you may have some people with a vested interest in the league that may take it over and enjoy it.

Gender doesn’t matter but it sounds like you should go to the people that you are keeping this league running for and ask them to take it in for a while since you are running it for their benefit.

 

[TKEUofM]

I started our league back in 2003 during the Moneymaker poker boom. We ran super strong up through 2016 getting 21-24 players easily for every tournament. Then I built a new house and the unfinished basement put a damper on the environment and the stress of building/moving slowed things down for me. I shut the league down for about a year until I finished the basement.

When I started back up we lost a few players and were only getting 18 for events, then Covid hit and we were shut down for another year or so. Once we came out of Covid people were starved for social interaction and we were back to the regular 24 player events. In the last year or so we've started growing again and got some new blood into the game and are getting 28 on the regular now.

I keep yearly stats and player rankings so it keeps everyone interested. We only do a $60 buy in for NLHE with no re-buys. It's become more of a social event than anything, most of us are in our 30's, 40's, or 50's and use it as a boys night out to get away, have a few drinks and laughs.

So we are on like our 20th season and are currently stronger than ever. Sometimes you just need a break or a bit of a reset.

 

[doublebooyah85]

I'm at a point where my game is dying. Partly by my own hand and partly due to forces beyond my control.

Last year I decided to drop HoldEm. I don't enjoy playing it, so I modified my league tournament to be PLO/HoldEm. That single decision lead to a drop in attendance. No big deal, I thought. I still fill up the cash game no problem.

Then Texas politics forced out several of my players who moved to states more friendly to their families needs.

Now I struggle to get a solid 7. Recruiting is difficult for the stakes and game selection we play. Thankfully we are planning our own move in 3 years - so I'm hopeful I can limp along in that time, otherwise the meetup circuit might be my only home games for the near future.

Good luck, and always be recruiting.

Lot of action and home games in Pittsburgh

 

[ekricket]

Then Texas politics forced out several of my players who moved to states more friendly to their families needs.

The beauty of a federalist state system. You can find areas of like minded people and go wall yourself off there. Whatever your beliefs are.

It seems like a bunch of people (from anecdotal news stories) moved their families from other states to Texas to suit their families needs, so maybe there is some fresh recruiting opportunities.

 

[NeutronHim]

That sounds like it would attract unwanted attention.

Yeah the fact that it's in the same location as the business definitely complicated things. I'm just noting the general trend that if someone wants you to do something you don't really want to do, you should probably charge them; probably a little more complicated than that in this case.

 

[Josh Kifer]

Totally do some weeks. Been going now 22 years and if I really am over it, take a week or two off. It's just poker, and things will be okay to take a short break. It's a game and meant to be fun.

 

[SteveEH]

I host a 6 max cash game and that consumes me for about 3 days/month (prep/setup, the game, and cleanup). Sometimes when life gets extra busy/tough it can be difficult for me to muster up the energy, but I always feel it's rewarding and worth the effort as I'm spending time with friends and doing something I enjoy. I don't think I could do a multi table league...

Sounds like you need to cut it back to something that brings YOU joy (your cash games?). Perhaps one of your lady friends could step up as tournament director, you could get more help with the prep and cleanup, and you could start participating in the tournaments before cash games? That would be nice for everyone, but if you still don't enjoy it, it's probably time to put yourself first...

 

[louBdub]

I’m a noob at hosting compared to most on here. Started in 2021, and have hosted about twice a month since, along with building and recruiting a local club here.

That said, I’ve definitely hit some points where I was grumpy about all of it, but I knew I loved playing so I found ways to keep it interesting.

At first my game was only cash, lots of players got busted and busted hard, some started ghosting…. Couldn’t afford to lose money like that. One fellow host was even on the ropes and mentioned quitting all together…

So I started a tournament, cheap entry, fun lotto poker is what I call it. BUT, I love cash, and the tournament became a season, and the season took over my time, and my cash games kinda fell off…. Not happy about that.

So, I’m now finishing up the current season, and have already scheduled out the 2025 schedule. It’s balanced and fun, 50/50 Cash/Tournament Season setup.

Making it both was the move I think. It’s balanced, and balance is where all happy things exist.

I think your current feelings are because your game has become unbalanced. You host and burn yourself out, and you’re not loving the group and game as you once did. I think a small break will give you fresh takes and you’ll find your happy again, and a new balanced way forward to enjoy hosting like you once did.