Athenian Owl Club (2 Viewers)

[Coyote]

The ambition was to build a versatile non-denomination (thus, both cash and tourney) 500something chip set, on a budget naively determined at just south of one grand.
Joining this forum has already proved the futility of budgets!

The inlay concept would have to say something about me (an Athenian by birth), but also 5/8ths Epirot and 1/8th Spartan by descent, and above all Greek, owing the glory chiefly to our conquest of the then known world under Macedonian leadership, while I would not rule out an emotional, arbitrary bridging of the Greek region of Epirus with the Old American West, due to the interesting similarities (rugged and mountainous land, noble tradition of rural outlaws, livestock as a mainstay of bread-winning, my great-grandfather a horse caravan driver and horseshoe collector etc, ).
A dizzying array of choices, not to mention the Eastern Roman ("Byzantine") double-headed eagle, already in use by a carload of other nations influenced by our medieval empire.

I had found an appropriate inlay for each of the ancient Greek states of Athens, Sparta and Macedonia (basically the symbols proudly carried on their infantry shields), while trying in parallel to make a charming Texan longhorn skull to represent the ancient Epirus Kingdom bull emblem, when David told me that Fate had decided for me:
No Horsehead mold available (hence, no Macedonian or Byzantine cavalry, no Epirot plus Texan rural tradition), only A-crest currently available. That is, A for Athens!
So, the inlay will picture the Athenian Owl, holy symbol of the birthplace of: democracy, political philosophy, theater, and myself!

I'll try to upload all sets I worked on, for the record. The exact inlay will have to be worked on further, of course - this is just indicative.

Edit: Chip6 added to Athenian Owl

 

[CHP TD]

Hi Coyote

I used to do the same thing, use the same chips for tourneys and cashies. My experience is its the worst idea ever.

The reason is there is no cash value in tourney chips but there IS cash value in cash chips. all anyone needs to do is remove a tourney chip slip it back into the cash game and your in a world of hurt.

And it happened,

And i trusted everyone

and i bet you want to say it will never happen, I know i did!

Save yourself the pain.

 

[allforcharity]

Athenian owl inlay looks great!

 

[Coyote]

@CHP TD: I can't figure out how this could happen if you never-ever stage both a tournament and a cash game in the same house, at the same time or consecutively. Unless a chip gets stolen to be used another day - in that case, denomination would make things even worse. I 've read that, in Vegas, chips were used as a currency in the streets, including for charity purposes in churches.

@allforcharity: Thank you!

 

[inca911]

I like the owl of all those three. The Star reminds me of a basic Paulson starburst. The lambda is a bit underwhelming. The owl is visually most interesting.

 

[Coyote]

Thanks inca911.

Guys, any further ideas / remarks about the colors and edge spots?
Are 3V12's smaller (inner) part of the edge as fragile as -18 edges are said to be?

 

[Psypher1000]

So it looks like you have two basic lineups - two varieties of a 3u pattern, and a 1/4pie lineup.

Re: the 3u, I made a couple tweaks. The green chip felt like it needed a little pop, so I droped the black spot for red instead. Doing that also prevents you from having black spots on conseuctive chips, and from having black on three chips in a row. I had concerns with the blue and dg saturn spots on the black chip - the dg saturn tends to run a bit green & the light blue combined with that smaller interior spot may make the colors/spots blend a little. There was also no orange in the lineup to be seen. There's a few different ways you could go with it, though. With the yellow and purple chips you had an interior spot on both of them that looked pretty similar, so I changed the interior spot on the purple chip. Again, there's a couple different ways you could go with that. This is where I ended up, though.

You'll note I also used the HHR mold. Why? Because get what you want. If that means waiting, then wait. It'll come around again soon enough. The worst thing you can do, however, is buy something you don't actually want. You'll just spend more money later on ordering what you do want. Better to get it right the first time.

As for the 1/4 pie set, love the hourglass mold for that, but question the standard inlay vs. 1". I bumped the inlay a bit, and made two tweaks. I'm almost universally against a pure B&W chip, so I tweaked the white to grey. I also bumped the brightness of the retro lavendar spot to a pink. Adds just a little more contrast without going overboard.

One thing I will note re: the Lambda icon is that - and I promise this will happen - someone will ask "what's with the Roman numeral 5?" or will otherwise assume each chip is just worth 5 points.

Of the three inlays, I personally love the starburst one the most. The other two are a toss-up, but I will agree that the owl one is visually more interesting.

On all three inlay designs it looks like you have some kind of border ring with text inside it. That text is entirely illegible at that size and will come out looking like indecipherable shat. Furthermore, there's a buffer area around the edge of the inlay where nothing can be printed, so if you're going to include that ring at all it would need pushed in about 2mm, thus making the interior text even more indecipherable. Either change that ring to some kind of pattern, or eliminate it all together.

There's nothing wrong at all with a non-denominational set - I have a small set myself, and they're extremely flexible which is awesome. And if you never-ever are going to have multiple types of games going simultaneously nor will you follow a tournament with a cash game, then yes, that should be fine. But if either one of those two scenarios ever takes place, you're risking loss of cash and/or integrity of the game & I wish you the best. I only use mine for either board games or as a tertiery set when both a cash game and tournament are running at the same time, and for some reason we need a third set for something else. Truth is I have enough sets now to where my hot stamps are no longer necessary for poker purposes, but I still keep them around for board games. In other words, using them as a multi-purpose set may be fine in the short term, but I do highly recommend multiple sets if you're going to be hosting for a while.

I 've read that, in Vegas, chips were used as a currency in the streets, including for charity purposes in churches.

This is still true today.

 

[LinkyBabe]

When I see lambda I'm reminded of this...

 

[CHP TD]

@CHP TD: I can't figure out how this could happen if you never-ever stage both a tournament and a cash game in the same house, at the same time or consecutively. Unless a chip gets stolen to be used another day - in that case, denomination would make things even worse. I 've read that, in Vegas, chips were used as a currency in the streets, including for charity purposes in churches.

@allforcharity: Thank you!

Cool as. just letting you know of potential downsides. seems like you have considered it (y) :thumbsup:

and the 3u set is killer!:

as for black and white theres a WSOP black and white chip and i really like it. but thats a totally redundant statement cause your against it.

And kudos for not settling. get exactly what YOU want. best piece of advice ever in custom sets, Why? it may take time to get them but after the money is paid and they arrive the little things you dont love just bug you forever.

wise advice indeed.(y) :thumbsup:

 

[200 Motels]

I like the owl best as well.

What's the breakdown gonna look like?

Glad to see you're waiting for what you want. HHR mold is cool as f.

 

[Coyote]

Thanks guys, and a great big thank you to Psypher1000!

About the inlay:
It goes without saying that the illegible text band will be deleted. Maybe there will be some room for a circular inscription like "Athenian Owl Club" (not a necessity).
I 'm also thinking about having the artwork in the color of each chip's smaller outer edge (always on black background)
-Question: Is it advisable to keep a ring border line in white or whatever the artwork color, or would it be safer to have the black of the background border directly the color of the chip base?

About the colors and edge spots:
Desperately waiting for that color sample to arrive from the UK. Upon its arrival, I'll do my final homework, taking into serious account Psypher's valuable feedback.
For the time being, I have come to admit to myself that the color I am most in love with is the Retro Lavender.
My aim (in dealing with an Ancient Greek and particularly Athenian - inspired set) has been to achieve "elegance through austerity" (not the plain, rigid austerity of Sparta). I would have made it somewhat coarse (in terms of both colors and edge spots) and "naughtier" on a rural/rebel-inspired HHR chip.

About the mold and the concept:
There are several aspects in each person; hence, there are several different things we may equally like, honestly. I accept Fate and Budget as two compasses in the abyss of choices.
Although I would have liked somewhat better the Horsehead than the A-crest, on purely aesthetic grounds, that would throw me in another abyss of choices (Macedonian Star or Byzantine Eagle, or the sub-abyss of bull skulls: Epirus and/or Texas). I would have liked even more the Hourglass (excellent for both Athens and Sparta), but that would push the cost even further up, at a time when the 3V12 spots have already done a fine job towards that painful direction.
The A-crest fits perfectly the Athenian concept and the Athenian concept makes me honestly happy. And if the Athenian Owl had been my starting point anyway, the HHR would be out of the question - what gave birth to Democracy is the general conscription Infantry (and home / land ownership for all) - not the pre-existing cavalry, only composed by the nobility who could afford horses.

 

[Coyote]

Having ruled out other concepts (thread title edited accordingly) and having received, cleaned and oiled the color sample, I would like to share two "semi finalist" versions.
One is made up by the odd numbers and the other by the even ones. The two could be interchangeable to a limited extent only.
The Retro Lavender chip, which has been the cornerstone and inspiration for this set is the same in both versions.

One other difference between the two is inlay size (just to show the difference; it doesn't mean that inlay size is specific to any of the versions). I have made the top chip (black or charcoal) with a 1in inlay anyway - regardless if the rest are going to be 7/8in or 1.

The hardest part in my effort has been to avoid bumping on ideas already realized by other people with a taste amazingly similar to mine. Ideas almost obvious for people of the same taste.
I have done my best to be original and yet stay true to my wishes, but still would love to listen to their advice.
I always had in mind the "elegance through austerity / beauty through simplicity" ancient Athenian motto. Not evident how to implement that on poker chips.
You tell me.

 

[Psypher1000]

Having ruled out other concepts (thread title edited accordingly) and having received, cleaned and oiled the color sample, I would like to share two "semi finalist" versions.
One is made up by the odd numbers and the other by the even ones. The two could be interchangeable to a limited extent only.
The Retro Lavender chip, which has been the cornerstone and inspiration for this set is the same in both versions.

One other difference between the two is inlay size (just to show the difference; it doesn't mean that inlay size is specific to any of the versions). I have made the top chip (black or charcoal) with a 1in inlay anyway - regardless if the rest are going to be 7/8in or 1.

The hardest part in my effort has been to avoid bumping on ideas already realized by other people with a taste amazingly similar to mine. Ideas almost obvious for people of the same taste.
I have done my best to be original and yet stay true to my wishes, but still would love to listen to their advice.
I always had in mind the "elegance through austerity / beauty through simplicity" ancient Athenian motto. Not evident how to implement that on poker chips.
You tell me.

View attachment 156863

Can you separate the two lineups into two different pics, please? It’s difficult to evaluate them in their current amalgamation.

Also, don’t worry *too* much about copying someone else’s chip. Maybe be courteous and reach out to them to see if they’re cool with it, but even if they say no, *shrug*. It’s one thing if you’re copying a set wholesale, but sometimes a good chip is a good chip, and it just fits in multiple sets.

 

[Nex]

Owl and lambda inlays look great!
Sun is sort of a bit too generic for my taste... together with the mostly average colors. Only the second fiver and the first 25 really stand out with their color scheme imo.

+1 on the warning to not try to save a few bucks by reusing your cash set as tournament set and vice versa. You will regret it.

Regarding taking "inspiration" from other peoples' chip designs... there is a saying: Imitation is the highest form of flattery. Noone is getting hurt in the process either, no damage is done. Why not do it if you like a design really much?

 

[allforcharity]

I'll call the left side choices "A" and the right side choices "B"

My favourite choices:
Yellow B
Red A
Blue A
Green A
Purple they are exactly the same
Black B

 

[Coyote]

Many thanks for the input, guys!
I 'll come up with a further evolved (and simplified: @Psypher1000) version very soon.

Meanwhile, I have come to the conclusion that I 'm going to anchor on "ancient-looking" base colors to stay true to the concept, i.e. "sober" if not pale ones, and have maybe a couple of DGs on the edges. Other parts of me may adore other base colors (especially the Retros in red, green and blue) but they 're not that suitable for what I am pursuing now.
So, it's going to be Canary instead of DG yellow for the yellow chip base, Imperial (not Peacock) for the blue and the tile-ish Red (not Retro red) for the red one. Green and Charcoal/Black are confirmed, while the majestic and antique RLav may just be the reason I embarked on this effort.
Hopefully, I 'll reach the goal of distilling the concealed yet ever-present voluptuousness out of chaste classical symmetry.

I have also considered 3TA316 spots (instead of 3V12s) since they do justice to both edge colors. On the other hand, not only are they one level up from the already expensive 3V12s, but they do not follow the contour of the inlay's circle (like the latter), being an offspring of 3916 (not 312) and looking a little bit like raw brush-strokes. This could only partly be cured by using huge (1&1/8) inlays.

I am making progress with the inlay also, with a professional friend's help, and I 'll be happy to present it, hopefully very soon.

@Nex: First of all, congrats for your set.
Don't worry, I may also make a Lacedaemonian Λ set in the future! That would also serve the cause of Greek national reconciliation (belated by 2,500 years) between Athens and Sparta.

 

[dickzapper]

I really like the look of that star but the owl is laid out really well. If I had to pick I'd go star.

 

[Coyote]

I really like the look of that star but the owl is laid out really well. If I had to pick I'd go star.

Thanks. I 'm set on the owl now, and an even nicer owl inlay is on the way.

 

[Coyote]

Probably (and hopefully) my last color-related request for input.
It basically concerns the edge spots of the (Imperial) Blue and the Green base chips. I consider the two base colors, as well as the other 4 complete chips as finalized, unless a wave of PCFers comes massively in the thread to tell me I 'm awfully wrong.
So, I' m posting the set as a whole, and some variations of the Imperial Blue and the Green chip.

Now, the I Blue and Green possible variants:

I have done some research in popular archaeology to ensure that all of these colors would indeed represent the aesthetics of my ancestors of 25 centuries ago, and that all but one probably (DG Pink) would be more or less achievable within the technical means of the time.
I have to mention that, of the proposed variants for I Blue, the one with the DG Yellow as main edge color is a direct loan from Psypher1000's monumental Cavalry Club set.

-Next and final question: Do you think that the above set would look better with 3TA316 spots (except for the charcoal chip which would remain 4V12 anyway) and an even bigger (1in plus) inlay?
More on the inlay, hopefully soon.

 

[Rhodeman77]

Probably (and hopefully) my last color-related request for input.
It basically concerns the edge spots of the (Imperial) Blue and the Green base chips. I consider the two base colors, as well as the other 4 complete chips as finalized, unless a wave of PCFers comes massively in the thread to tell me I 'm awfully wrong.
So, I' m posting the set as a whole, and some variations of the Imperial Blue and the Green chip.

View attachment 158084

Now, the I Blue and Green possible variants:
View attachment 158105

View attachment 158106

View attachment 158107
View attachment 158108
View attachment 158109

I have done some research in popular archaeology to ensure that all of these colors would indeed represent the aesthetics of my ancestors of 25 centuries ago, and that all but one probably (DG Pink) would be more or less achievable within the technical means of the time.
I have to mention that, of the proposed variants for I Blue, the one with the DG Yellow as main edge color is a direct loan from Psypher1000's monumental Cavalry Club set.

-Next and final question: Do you think that the above set would look better with 3TA316 spots (except for the charcoal chip which would remain 4V12 anyway) and an even bigger (1in plus) inlay?
More on the inlay, hopefully soon.

I can see confusion with the blue, green and possibly the charcoal chip. Also the red and lavender chip could have mixups. Using the same spot pattern on each chip doesn’t help the issue

 

[Psypher1000]

Do you think that the above set would look better with 3TA316 spots

No.

and an even bigger (1in plus) inlay?

Stick with 1"

Any of the greens are fine - my preference in a vacuum would be with the black exterior spot. That said, I beeseech thee, use a yellow-flavored exterior spot with the imperial blue base! The dark blue spots look fine, but the yellow is *much* better on the outside rather than as an interior spot. Which yellow you go with is up for debate - I'm always hesitant to go with DG Saturn, but it may work in this situation. I'd still probably lean towards DG Yellow or canary, though.

Do I recall correctly that all these are going to be non-denominated?

 

[Coyote]

Yes!

 

[Psypher1000]

Yes!

If they're all going to be non-denominated then why the different pattern on the charcoal chip?

 

[Coyote]

It is meant to always hold the top rank, regardless of specific value.

 

[Coyote]

Btw, here are the inlays: Probably one of the two with the "Athenian Owl Club" inscription on the front and the full image without inscription on the back of each chip.

 

[Coyote]

Getting ready to pull the trigger. Any comments welcome, especially by His Chipness @Psypher1000.

As you 'll see below, I was talked into eventually denominating all but the top chip, in a way that allows both tournament (T300/400) and cash use (the 25 and 50 also playable as .25 and .50, while the charcoal NCV as 100 in tourneys and as 10 or 20 in cash games).
I included here chip #7 just for the record - it's not going to happen. It would be a chip commemorative of the ancient 4-drachma Athenian coin picturing the owl (hence the hardly playable value 4) and I just can't afford ordering another 100 chips purely for emotional, concept-fulfilling reasons.

 

[cpac54]

I really like the design of these inlays, so simple and clean, yet it really stands out. One of my favourite designs of all the ones I've seen here. The colours on that 4 are just great too - would be great if you could find a way to justify integrating it into the collection. Really like the 1 chip too. Nice work.

 

[krafticus]

Weird denominations, with a 25 and 50. Most players would for go the 50 as it doesn’t add any value. If you use it for a cash game, you would have a .25, .50, $1, and $2....

 

[Coyote]

@krafticus: I know that the 2 and 50 values are actually redundant - but not necessarily harmful to a social game, especially if they carry denominations, to prevent confusion among non-regular users.
The truth is that 5 (types of) chips would be enough, but I got carried away by the wantonness of this forum and the CPC colors and options
So, I opted for form over function - hopefully not too much.

@cpac54: Many thanks for your appreciation!

Btw, I attach a picture of a replica of the ancient coin which has been the inspiration for this set.

 

[Trihonda]

Wait, what? On my phone so I can’t see the inlays well. You’re on a budget, and doing custom chips with both 25 AND 50 denoms? Very inefficient use of chip allocation.

You have an owl on the inlay, and they are thought to be symbolic of wisdom. Spend your chip money wisely...