Backing out of chip sales when (later) realising true chip value? (1 Viewer)

[doakwolf]

Perhaps better discussed here rather than in the classifieds section.

Hypothetical scenario: Someone lists some chips for sale at a cheap price, an offer or "dibs" is made, but when realising their current market value is actually higher than originally listed price, they pull out and adjust asking price or re-list.

Discuss?

I think it depends. If it's someone who knows their value but suddenly realises there are a couple of serious collectors who are both ready to pay big bucks and then adjust price (or re-list at auction) then that's poor form. To me.

But if someone seriously hasn't checked the market for a while and then realises he/she could (or is should the better word?) have listed them for a higher price, is it so bad to adjust/relist? If so, why? Keeping in mind it's very possible those chips, if purchased at a very cheap rate, may well end up back on the market in the near or far future AT a higher price. This is partly why I'm on the fence with this topic. At some point, those chips are probably getting sold again. If so, for how much I wonder?

Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't do it***. Gotta admit, when I recently listed 400 PCRs for $550 and they sold within minutes of listing, I did ask myself if I should have put more on them. But I'd never have done it. I listed them on the lower end of market value deliberately because I personally think the market (for home Paulsons) has completely lost the plot.

*** I'd do it only under an extreme circumstance such as; I list a bunch of Granddad's random chips for a few bucks then later realise there's some rare piece in there worth $10k or something. I'm sorry, but the person who called dibs on that lot better get over it. That's going to auction. You can have the rest at a fair price.

Curious to hear thoughts on the matter. It's not really covered by the guidelines http://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/pcf-classifieds-guidelines.928

 

[Marius L]

Not the end of the world if this happens once in a blue moon if you ask me. But obviously not ideal. The seller should have done some more research before putting the chips for sale in the first place, but being away from chipping for a while and coming back to the spike in prices atm it just seems like an honest mistake.

I agree I probably wouldn't do it, but that is also because I would be better prepared for selling and the issue would probably never occur.

I think if the updated price is still reasonable considering today's market I would have no huge issue buying from a seller doing this if I needed/wanted the chips. Yes, I might not have gotten the chips at a give-away price, but at least I could get them at a fair price.

I remember another post a little while back with 500+ beauties at a great price. I saw the add the second it came up and I was thinking about picking up the entire lot of all 500+ chips just because I knew the chips would be easy to sell at a higher price later. I decided not to because I had no need for them and I knew others were looking for them. The chips were obviously spoken for almost instantly, just like the other very recent add leading to this discussion, but in that case the seller honored his word. I ended up feeling a bit bad for him as it was just an honest mistake on his part and he basically gave away a few hundred bucks in value, and I wouldn't have held it against him if he upped the price a little bit. I guess it mostly depends on the financial state of the seller. For some the few hundred bucks difference might be important.

To be honest in most cases where adds are posted and many in the community instantly realizes that its a great deal the chips will be picked up mainly for resale for profit. Honestly I don't think that kind of behavior is much better ethically than changing the price. If you see a noob posting great chips you don't need at a cheap price you could also tell them the price is not right instead of buying the chips and selling them for double the price a month later. The chip community should not be about maximizing profit, but fair and helpful. (on eBay/Cl do whatever you like though, lol)

Anyways I think if it is a one-time thing from the seller it wouldn't be awful, but if certain sellers did it again and again it would be another thing entirely. In general I agree it is bad form though, and the classifieds would basically suck if this happened often.

 

[AdamAAAA]

If a sale has not been agreed then no issue with it. However, agreeing to sell and then pulling out is a douche move.

 

[thorwilliam]

If it is a case where the chips are worth 10 times more than the asking price I guess I would not have a big problem with it and have sympathy with the ignorant seller, but to not honour a deal to make 20% more would piss me off.

 

[doakwolf]

If it is a case where the chips are worth 10 times more than the asking price I guess I would not have a big problem with it and have sympathy with the ignorant seller, but to not honour a deal to make 20% more would piss me off.

I guess this raises a question - what is a 'deal' and at what point is the deal 'made'?

 

[mike32]

I guess this raises a question - what is a 'deal' and at what point is the deal 'made'?

Offer and acceptance in my opinion. I would give a newbie a break I suppose but if someone that's been here a while makes a deal I think they should honor it.

 

[Poker Zombie]

If some point, if a seller changes his mind about the price, it is most likely because some new information suddenly came to them. I could not, in all good conscience, buy something for a price that I knew would make them feel miserable. It would be like telling a noob "having trips is a really good hand", when there are 4 cards to a straight and 4 cards to a flush on the board.

Sometimes, people sell an item far below value just to be rid of it - those are good deals. Fleecing a fellow human being - or trying to make them sell once they know that they've made a mistake - that's the dickish move.

Note: this should not be construed to mean "bait and switch" moves are cool either. All parties should deal in good faith.

 

[Blaster]

I agree with most of the posters above ...
Sometimes the "sour grapes" of someone ragging on a seller for not accepting a quick buy at below market value, after realizing their mistake, could be perceived just as negative as posting a sell price & changing it higher ...
... A person, unknown to the seller , simply posting "dibs" , "PM coming" , or I want 'em , in some internet board , probably doesn't rise to the level of a legal bound accepted offer by both parties ..
People should post classifieds with the clear intent to sell, however , even in real estate, & other deals, the sale item in question may often sell for higher than the initial ad "ask" price, & someone just saying "dibs", or they are willing to pay the ask price, often does not necessarily mean they then simply end up transferring their money and owning the product in all cases ...

 

[MatB]

I try to treat everyone as though your my neighbor and if i said you can have my lawnmower for $50 thats what you can have it for. With a small exception.

Exception 1.... even if you are my neighbor, and my i find out that its a 1 of a kind worth 50x the value i though it was, then i would say " Oh man really sorry, i thought i was selling you a $50 mower.. i can't sell you this for $50 its worth 50X that..." much apologies and probably a few beers in compensation.

Exception to exception 1....... If i say you can have it for $50 and it really is a $50 to $200 mower and my other neighbor says "I'll give you $80 for it" I would have to decline and say "its already been sold" (for $50). My loss but thats how i operate.

As i've said before, I'll honor any "dibs" "i'll take it" or "mine" in a For Sale add. within reasonable time constraints.

The only time i could see an exception is if the Item really was crazily undervalued. The sale that probably caused this thread seems like its right on the cusp
of value to sale price being exceptionally different.

 

[MatB]

I agree with most of the posters above ...
Sometimes the "sour grapes" of someone ragging on a seller for not accepting a quick buy at below market value, after realizing their mistake, could be perceived just as negative as posting a sele price & changing it higher ...
... A person, unknown to the seller , simply posting "dibs" , "PM coming" , or I want 'em , in some internet board , probably doesn't rise to the level of a legal bound accepted offer by both parties ..
People should post classifieds with the clear intent to sell, however , even in real estate, & other deals, the sale item in question may often sell for higher than the initial ad "ask" price, & someone just saying "dibs", or they are willing to pay the ask price, often does not necessarily mean they then simply end up transferring their money and owning the product in all cases ...

I disagree. "dibs" or "i'll take em" Is you saying you will buy them at the price listed. If the price listed is what they are being sold for and not an auction style add, or a Interest in selling add, or a post your best offer add.

"Pm coming" means nothing to me. means you sent a pm and might want to discuss the chips being sold, maybe.

 

[H|Q]

If it's someone from this board I generally don't mind. I'd rather have my transaction end favorably than leave a bad taste in someone's mouth

 

[Blaster]

I disagree. "dibs" or "i'll take em" Is you saying you will buy them at the price listed. If the price listed is what they are being sold for and not an auction style add, or a Interest in selling add, or a post your best offer add.
.

I do generally agree, but just from the perspective of people pounding the dramatic "legal accepted offer" stuff, a simple "dibs" type post, still hasn't yet, & needs to be, fully accepted by the seller before the "legal and binding" dramatic comments should start ... , & sale finalized...
Just as saying "dibs" in a real estate or Auto sale posting is essentially just as meaningless from a "legal" sense, a seller could choose ( at their own peril), to not accept a full price offer, or hold out for a while, etc ...
Again, this is not in any way about what "general etiquette" of chip selling should be ...

 

[MatB]

I agree, i don't think there has been any sale here EVER that could be considered legally binding.

But a guideline of "general etiquette" would be nice. Repeat offenders could lose selling privileges?

 

[MatB]

Of course.. i do like the self regulating nature of this site, and it doesn't seem like anything too crazy has happened.

If it ant broke don't fix it comes to mind.

 

[Jambine]

....A person, unknown to the seller , simply posting "dibs" , "PM coming" , or I want 'em , in some internet board , probably doesn't rise to the level of a legal bound accepted offer by both parties.....

Too true. I would say however that a legit offer to sell is just that. If it results in a valid acceptance of that offer, it's a done deal.

 

[Blaster]

Of course.. i do like the self regulating nature of this site, and it doesn't seem like anything too crazy has happened.

If it ant broke don't fix it comes to mind.

Agree !

 

[Tommy]

We all make mistakes. Correct it, own up to it, and move on. It becomes an issue when it keeps happening.

 

[ssanel54]

I think everyone probably has a price that would get them to reconsider a deal. That price may vary greatly from person to person.

What I wanted to initially discuss about this situation, is how does one find out that their pricing is off? If they happen to look at eBay or other sales after they have listed chips for a set price and receive an offer for those chips, then shame on them for not taking the time to do so before listing them.

If a third party intervenes and lets them know that their pricing is too low then they are either a good Samaritan (if they want nothing in return), or a real douche bag (if they want the chips and are trying to derail a sale because they are willing to pay more)

If Sellers are receptive to third parties telling them their chips are priced too low, then why the hell wont anyone listen when you suggest their prices are too high. At this point, your no longer a good samaritan, you're just an asshole.

The specific deal that spurred this conversation is interesting since nobody really knows what happened. I saw the initial price that the chips were listed for, and I thought it was a great price. It wasn't such a great price that I wanted to buy the chips, and it wasn't so low that I would ever feel compelled to tell the seller he was way off. Doesn't seem like their was a 3rd party trying to steal the chips, since they were still available for days, and the re-listed price still seems Very reasonable.

 

[Chicken Rob]

If we only had a chip pricing tool...

 

[slisk250]

I think everyone probably has a price that would get them to reconsider a deal. That price may vary greatly from person to person.

I'm not so sure that everyone has a price. I've been offered quite a bit for some things that were "sold" a few months ago. The first chipper knows I'm stuck in Saudi until July. No way I change my mind. A few others have even paid for chips that won't ship for another 3 months. There isn't a reasonable price that could be offered by anyone in these cases. The issue isn't money or price.

 

[ssanel54]

I'm not so sure that everyone has a price. I've been offered quite a bit for some things that were "sold" a few months ago. The first chipper knows I'm stuck in Saudi until July. No way I change my mind. A few others have even paid for chips that won't ship for another 3 months. There isn't a reasonable price that could be offered by anyone in these cases. The issue isn't money or price.

Well, you did use the term "reasonable price", which leaves the door open for an unreasonable price to pry them away.

My point was that its easy to say, you would never back out of a chip deal over $200, but if a $10 sale tag gets placed on your family's original Monet painting during a yard sale, you might have some second thoughts about selling. I also didn't specifically say Money.

A few years ago, I started to clean out our basement. During the process I listed a bunch of stuff for sale on Craigslist. Among the items I listed was one of those play kitchen sets for kids. My kids hadn't used it in ages and It was taking up tons of space, so I listed it for like $20 hoping someone would come take it away. I had a bunch of people who wanted it, but agreed to sell it to the first person who contacted me. She was very grateful and said she had been searching for one of these for a long time. Unfortunately, what I had neglected to do, was to run the idea by my kids. When I informed them that someone was coming to take the kitchen, they both burst into tears. I got the full guilt trip that it was a gift from their now dead grandmother, and how much they still love it..etc.. Needless to say, I contacted the buyer and backed out of the deal. I felt terrible for backing out, but I explained the situation, and she accepted it. Maybe she believed me, or maybe she thought I got a better offer. I had a price, but it wasn't money.

The kitchen sat unused in our basement for another year.

 

[slisk250]

I see your point but we are talking apples and oranges. This is a chip deal for money. I did say reasonable. So what if someone offered unreasonable money? Let's say they wanted my Mapes and were ready to pay $5K for them. They are crazy (unreasonable). I call the other chipper and ask if they want to split the profit or we stick with the deal. There is no price because the amount needed to make the call to that chipper would never be offered (or solicited for). "Sorry they are sold."

 

[bergs]

If we only had a chip pricing tool...

Chicken, don't encourage him.

 

[manamongkids]

If money sent, a deal has been made. If no money has been exchanged. Seller is allowed to bring up his price or bring down their price as they would like.

Definitely giving benefit of doubt to any newbies, especially newbies who are interested in the chipping hobby, not just here to sell one set and never be heard from again

 

[Chippy McChiperson]

I see your point but we are talking apples and oranges. This is a chip deal for money. I did say reasonable. So what if someone offered unreasonable money? Let's say they wanted my Mapes and were ready to pay $5K for them. They are crazy (unreasonable). I call the other chipper and ask if they want to split the profit or we stick with the deal. There is no price because the amount needed to make the call to that chipper would never be offered (or solicited for). "Sorry they are sold."

Dibs on your Mapes...

 

[H|Q]

I've only read the OP, but what this really boils down to is reputation.

Resended offers can be done tactfully, but they really should be done to both parties agreement.

When I make deals I'm not focused on the deal at hand, I'm thinking about all the deals I have done and will do with that person. I'm not willing to sacrifice my relationship with any traders over dollars. I can't count the number of times I've gone back to a failed deal to score some great chips later.

This is a small community with long memories. No matter what side you find yourself on, remember why you come here so often, and let that guide your interactions.

 

[Chicken Rob]

Also, I think any chipper with integrity is going to be understanding when a noob needs a correction on a set of chips for sale. No one wants the rep of chipper bum hunter (I hope).

 

[manamongkids]

Also, I think any chipper with integrity is going to be understanding when a noob needs a correction on a set of chips for sale. No one wants the rep of chipper bum hunter (I hope).

Amen, some slack should be cut. No need to jump in the thread and defend PCF's honor and berate the seller (newbie).

 

[BGinGA]

To me, it's pretty simple.

If somebody offers something for sale at a set price, it's because a) they want to sell it, and b) they are perfectly content with the asking price (or else they would not have gone to the trouble of publicly offering it).

If a seller lists an item and later discovers information that makes them decide the offered price is too low (or too high), then it's perfectly acceptable to change the terms of the item offered for sale.

But if somebody else has already accepted their initial offer to sell, then you have offer/acceptance, and the sale is binding. If either party backs out because a) the seller realized he could get a higher price, or b) the buyer found the item elsewhere for less, well, they're just lying and cannot be trusted.

An offer/acceptance is an agreement to sell and an agreement to buy, i.e., a binding contract -- and if you rescind on your agreement, then your word isn't worth squat. Don't expect to get treated with kid gloves.