Tourney Bounty Questions and Some Questions for 3 Tables. (1 Viewer)

[Hairy_Crocodile]

Hey all!

Unfortunately for you, I survived my surgery this week and ya'll still have to deal with me on here.

Unfortunately for me, I feel stupid and am having trouble doing the math for a 3 table set with all the meds pumping through me and had a question about bounties and questions about the best stacks for 30 players.

Breakdown for 3 Tables (& Best stack size for 30 players)
I am thinking of using 8/8/4/7 10k Stacks for 3 tables. 15k and 20k seem like they would be way too deep (I could be wrong on this btw), and wanted to ask what the general recommendation is for 30 players. 12/12/5/6/x is nice for more change on the table, but if I am making a set for 30 people, I want to slightly cut down on the number of total chips I want to buy, hence my preference towards 8/8/4/7.

Is my projected preference suitable for 3 tables worth of players, or a better question, the best option?
Would adding 5k-10k more to the starting stack with T5000's make it too deep of an event and keep it going way too long?

What is the best chip breakdown for 3 tables of 8/8/4/7?
So far I had something like:
T25 x 240
T100 x 240
T500 x 120
T1000 x 240
T5000 x 12 for color ups of 500's and then ????? for Rebuys and potential larger stacks. Possibly 60x T5000's to make it 900 chips??? Maybe more?

How many Re-Buy's/Re-entries do I allow? How far into the event do I cut off the ability to rebuy or re-enter (whether from felting or surrendering their stack) if I end up allowing them?
Do Re-entries count as another player? Or do we keep it the same number of players for these friendly home tournaments?

Payout Percentages by # of Players and Breakdown of Payouts
I have been reading that:
>20 players, you pay out 25%
21-25, you pay out something like 22%
<25 players it's 20%

Out of those getting payouts, what is the breakdown? That is the part I am lost on. What percentage does 1st get compared to second and so on? Do we have a sweet chart or write up explaining this that I have not found yet? I want to be sure when I make my spreadsheet that I have a fair payout structure.


Bounties
Do I get just 30 bounty chips? Do I need more for re-entries/re-buys? Or do they keep it if they buy back in? Do I give them another bounty chip if they buy back in if they had to forfeit theirs to the person who knocked them out?? Or do I avoid Bounties all together?


Thank you all for your knowledge and generosity. I don't know what I would do without you. Sorry for all the questions lately, I should be off the meds in a week or two, so my questions will be only slightly less ignorant after I recover then

 

[Dodger]

Paging @Chris Manzoni

 

[Hairy_Crocodile]

Do you guys and gals do payouts with percentages like these?

 

[tabletalker7]

The schedule I posted in your other tournament thread here, that runs my 30 player T10K freeze out. Has worked out great for me. I also use a 8/8/4/7 starting stack, and have no problems with the breakdown I got

240 T25
240 T100
120 T500
220 T1000
70 T5000
10 T25000
900 chips

I don't do rebuys cause we do this after a union meeting and most guys don't want to do rebuys. If you do rebuys, don't do bounties. If you do re entries (paying full price again to get a new starting stack) then you will need new bounty chips to give to the re entries. If you do rebuys or re entries you may want more of the lower denominations since the original 30 will exhaust all of your 25, 100, and 500, but you can use 2 5000s for that and have them get change on their table.

Payouts for 30 people:
1st = 40%
2nd = 23%
3rd = 13%
4th = 10%
5th = 8%
6th = 6%

These payouts are the suggested payouts from "Tournament Director" and everyone is happy with them. I STRONGLY recommend you get Tournament Director if you run a game this big. It takes care of EVERYTHING.

 

[Hairy_Crocodile]

@tabletalker7 your blind structure is the one I have on my spreadsheet that I have been teaching my friends actually. Your name is above the table so people know who made it, hope you are proud

What do you think of 10k vs 20k stacks for 30 people? Has it been fun? Better or worse?

 

[tabletalker7]

My schedule on 10K takes plenty long enough for my liking. Bigger stacks on the same schedule makes it take longer.

 

[tabletalker7]

Also, feel free to remove my name from your schedule. It is your game. Put your name on it. Take pride in your game man. Even if you didn't come up with it, you were at least smart enough to ask for help. Most people out in the real world are not that smart.

 

[Mr Winberg]

12/12/5/6/x is nice for more change on the table, but if I am making a set for 30 people, I want to slightly cut down on the number of total chips I want to

That's a good approach. 8 each of T25 and T100 for 30 players and 12 each for 20 players. However, always try to get as many out there as possible. E.g., if you're 23 players, don't use 8/8/... stacks, instead use 12/12/... for the first 20 players and give the last 3 players 10×T1000.

Would adding 5k-10k more to the starting stack with T5000's make it too deep of an event and keep it going way too long?

It depends very little on the starting stacks and very much on the blinds structur and the level duration. What tournament length are you aiming for?

T5000 x 12 for color ups of 500's

If you want to make the set more economical, I'd use the T5k for coloring up all lower denoms, i.e. T25, T100, and T500.

How far into the event do I cut off the ability to rebuy or re-enter (whether from felting or surrendering their stack) if I end up allowing them?

It depends on how many rebuys you want, but I think a sweet spot is where the last rebuy-level is where the startingstack is around 25-30 big blinds.

Bounties
Do I get just 30 bounty chips? Do I need more for re-entries/re-buys? Or do they keep it if they buy back in? Do I give them another bounty chip if they buy back in if they had to forfeit theirs to the person who knocked them out??

People do it both ways, but my (rather strong) opinion is that the rebuy chip is forfeited when you're felted, and you get a new one if you rebuy.

Or do I avoid Bounties all together?

No, rebuys are fun!!

 

[Silver_Fiend]

Your starting stacks and blind structure will determine the game length. 3 tables is going to take a while no matter what you do though. I prefer to allow rebuys, and I like bounties. New bounty chip with each rebuy.

 

[Hairy_Crocodile]

Also, feel free to remove my name from your schedule. It is your game. Put your name on it. Take pride in your game man. Even if you didn't come up with it, you were at least smart enough to ask for help. Most people out in the real world are not that smart.

I have a lot of pride in my game, but i also feel the importance of giving credit where it is due. Any person or resource that aids in my development is important to me, so I chose to give credit to your structure (and I will for any structure I use)

My pride in my game came this sunday for sure. We have a small poker night between anywhere from 5-10 of our friends every sunday, and I had to miss it this week because of my surgery. Every participant shot me a message in the group chat or privately saying they missed me, my leadership of the group and hoped I was feeling better. Then they ragged on my buddy (jokingly of course) for not doing things like I would have, that he wasnt allowed to deal anymore, and we all laughed

I wouldnt be able to run the dang things and allow my friends a smooth experience if it wasnt for this forum and people helping me learn.

I also will be using my pcf button alot when it gets here with my friends who are newer to the game so the name sticks in their head. That way, when they want to go down the rabbit hole, the name has been stuck in their head to come to this wonderful place. Then if they come here, they also may have names of those I gave credit to in their memory, so they potentially remember people they already are comfortable with asking for help.

 

[Hairy_Crocodile]

When do people put the 25k chips into play that use them? I have seen a few recommended breakdowns have the chip, but I dont know when or how to introduce it to the game

Also, what cool random prizes do you guys and gals do for your players? I think that would be a sweet idea to have some sort or door prize, random token thing in tubes for my players as well.

 

[Silver_Fiend]

I would say when you pull the T500 chips off the table

 

[Hairy_Crocodile]

These payouts are the suggested payouts from "Tournament Director" and everyone is happy with them. I STRONGLY recommend you get Tournament Director if you run a game this big. It takes care of EVERYTHING.

Is this an android/apple app? Or software I can download to anything basically? Sounds interesting!

 

[tabletalker7]

Is this an android/apple app? Or software I can download to anything basically? Sounds interesting!

Tournament Director is pc software. I use it on my piece of crap 2 in 1 windows tablet. It tracks players, seat players, runs the schedule, and I use a HDMI cable to connect it to a big screen to show blind levels and remaining players to the people. Check it out here https://www.thetournamentdirector.net/
It comes with a free trial so give it a run once. Well worth it.

 

[Hairy_Crocodile]

Looks like I may have to buy a tablet or get my laptop fixed then for sure!

 

[Mr Winberg]

I've never run a 30 player tournament, but plenty 20+. I use the free version of blindvalet, it works great. A big plus is that it's a web app, so you can show the blinds on any device that is logged on. For example, you can pause the timer via your smartphone and all devices showing the blinds will pause.

If you want it for anything else than showing the blinds and the clock then you need to pay a subscription fee.

 

[Hairy_Crocodile]

I also have a thought that I never asked about.

When players get knocked off tables, you consolidate players to even out all the tables, correct?

What is the process of picking players to move? Who moves to fill in empty seats on other tables? How do you pick?

 

[tabletalker7]

I also have a thought that I never asked about.

When players get knocked off tables, you consolidate players to even out all the tables, correct?

What is the process of picking players to move? Who moves to fill in empty seats on other tables? How do you pick?

I tell "Tournament Director" that someone got eliminated and Tournament Director tells me who to move where. That software really is bad ass stuff man.

 

[JustinInMN]

What is the process of picking players to move? Who moves to fill in empty seats on other tables? How do you pick?

A common approach is to pull the player due for the next big blind at the table in surplus and have them draw a seat in the game that needs a player.

Actually @Chris Manzoni covered this recently on his youtube channel.

(Table balancing starts at about 10min)

 

[JustinInMN]

When do people put the 25k chips into play that use them? I have seen a few recommended breakdowns have the chip, but I dont know when or how to introduce it to the game

We have had a few threads on this. Remember a barrel of T25K actually represents T500K so really it seems absurd to include them unless you are planning tournaments that would approach that many chips in play. (Maybe a 3 table T20K starting stack tournament, for example.)

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/denoms-towards-the-end-game.67603/

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/when-do-you-need-a-t25k.29482/

https://www.pokerchipforum.com/threads/t25-base-do-you-ever-use-a-t25-000.41595/

There seems to be consensus that the threshold is somewhere around T500K and T1M in play. I probably wouldn't introduce them until coloring up T500 chips. They probably don't become a "need" unless your tournaments are frequently getting high enough to color up T1000 chips.

Just my two cents, plenty to read here.

 

[Mr Winberg]

When do people put the 25k chips into play that use them?

Here's a way to look at it:
The first level without the T1000 is usually 10k/20k. Using the "20 BB rule" backwards, that means at least 400k needs to be in play. That's 80 T5000, which is very manageable. If you double it to 800k, that's 160 T5000, which is still manageable, but replacing some of them for T25k is ok too.

When you get north of 200 T5000, i.e. > 1 million in play, then you might pass into the realm of "needing" the T25k chips.